Victoria Kleinsman (00:01.0)
And here we go, well Izzy my love, welcome officially to the Body Love Binge podcast. How does it feel being a guest on the podcast?

Izzy (00:06.583)
Thank you so much.

Izzy (00:10.774)
Yeah, it feels really weird being this side of the podcast rather than listening to it, to be honest.

Victoria Kleinsman (00:14.912)
Yeah, and so I asked you if you would come on and share your story because I’ve been working with you for what is it about six months now? Just over six months and you’ve come so far in your recovery so I want you to share so people can get inspired and then also the things you say people might resonate with and they can even have more faith it’s possible for them so let’s start with

Izzy (00:23.286)
I think so, yeah, just over six months.

Izzy (00:33.1)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (00:41.906)
A little bit of a background story from where you’re eaten sort of started in the entire first place up until what made you reach out to me specifically.

Izzy (00:46.753)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy (00:50.294)
Yeah, okay. So from the very, very beginning, I was super lucky growing up. had a really lovely family, a really lovely upbringing, and I came from a very happy, loving family. And never once in any of my childhood, even like into my teenage years, did I have any…

issues with body image or my weight or dieting or anything like that, which I think sometimes people think is like really common, they must or someone with that developed an eating disorder must always have been obsessed with.

Victoria Kleinsman (01:22.943)
Hmm.

Izzy (01:33.323)
weight or calories or something like that but that wasn’t my experience at all. And so like I say super happy normal childhood and then when I was 16, Covid hit and we went into lockdown and I was in England sort of GCSE year that year so I was sort of supposed to be sitting these big exams in school.

Victoria Kleinsman (01:37.397)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (02:01.076)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy (02:02.964)
and all of that was cancelled and we were all sent home and put into lockdown. And I decided that over the lockdown I’d use some of that time that I, all that free time I got to sort of get into running, get a little bit fitter and actually initially that was pretty harmless and a sort of normal healthy thing.

But what happened for me, I think, is that I had always been pretty perfectionistic and pushed myself very, very hard, sort of high achieving. And so I couldn’t just do a little bit of running. I had to take that a little bit too far and I had to do loads of running and more and more and more. And…

what I think happened for me is I just was doing so much from never having really run before is that I didn’t increase my intake with the amount of movement I was doing. And so I pushed myself into an energy deficit. No, definitely not on purpose, definitely not on purpose. But I…

Victoria Kleinsman (03:12.03)
Hmm.

Victoria Kleinsman (03:17.278)
yeah on purpose can we just be like is it was it on purpose no

Izzy (03:27.08)
All I remember is things being quite normal and quite healthy and I was just going on a couple of runs and then really, really suddenly that genetic sort of switch flipped and I, from that point onwards, all I, I was like a zombie. Like all I could think about was how to eat less and move more. And I know that’s not everybody’s experience, but I know

Victoria Kleinsman (03:40.222)
Yes.

Izzy (03:56.396)
Tabitha Farah, who I know you also had on the podcast before. I know that was her experience as well. She was trying to lose weight, I think to ride a certain horse. I might ride a race horse. Yeah. Exactly. And so again, just like similar to her, my intentions weren’t like built from a bad place. But once I had triggered that genetic predisposition,

Victoria Kleinsman (04:00.244)
Mmm.

Victoria Kleinsman (04:07.346)
Yeah, to ride a racehorse because you have to be in a certain way to train the racehorse. Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (04:20.969)
Yeah.

Izzy (04:25.068)
to anorexia, there was like no return. I was so gone so quickly. So like I say, it all happened from that point very, very fast. I got very sick physically and mentally very quickly. And obviously I was at home, fortunately. So my parents noticed pretty soon and tried to intervene, tried to get me help, which was at the time very limited because obviously the NHS was really struggling.

Victoria Kleinsman (04:29.012)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (04:38.078)
Yeah. Yeah.

Izzy (04:55.212)
But we did manage to find a dietician and a therapist that said they had some eating disorder specialities. I might beg to differ. But I saw them both weekly on Zoom for quite a long time, to be honest. Different therapists over the years, but effectively for the next…

Victoria Kleinsman (05:07.786)
questionable maybe.

Izzy (05:25.493)
four years, four and a bit years, I repeated the same cycle of 24-7 monitoring by my parents. You know, had to be sat with for every meal and snack, had to be monitored every second of the day to make sure I wasn’t doing movement and like real forced recovery. And then I would, because of that monitoring, I’d gain some weight and everyone would say, okay.

Victoria Kleinsman (05:48.564)
Yes.

Izzy (05:54.613)
things are going a bit better, maybe you could start taking a bit more ownership and I would say, yeah, okay, I’ll try. And then that would last for varying amounts of time before inevitably I lost all the weight again, relapsed, if you can even call it a relapse, if you were never better. And then the monitoring would have to come back in again. And like I say, there were different lengths of time between that inevitable relapse, but the cycle was the same over and over and over.

Victoria Kleinsman (06:11.807)
Yes.

Izzy (06:24.555)
And every time I got worse again, I just had responsibility back to my parents or to someone else and make it someone else’s problem. And like I say, after four and a bit years, I think it finally started to sink in that actually, if I wanted to ever get better and I wanted to ever break this cycle, I was going to have to do something a little bit different because this was clearly not.

Victoria Kleinsman (06:52.404)
Mm.

Izzy (06:53.874)
working for me.

Victoria Kleinsman (06:55.06)
Yes. Did you want to recover initially when your parents were supporting you every moment of the day? you, was there resistance there? Did you want to get better? I’m curious where you were at that point when you started recovery then.

Izzy (07:09.498)
At the very, very beginning, I was a bit resistant. Like I say, it all happened very fast and I was so unwell. Honestly, I don’t really remember very much. I don’t think I really thought anything other than, are they going to make me eat in an hour’s time? I really don’t think there was much going on.

Victoria Kleinsman (07:19.914)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (07:29.482)
Yeah, that’s normal.

Victoria Kleinsman (07:35.72)
Yeah, yeah.

Izzy (07:38.758)
in here. But pretty quickly I was saying to everyone, yeah I want to get better, yeah yeah I definitely want to get better. But for four and a half years not one of my actions would have reflected that and we’ve spoken before a lot like if there was a fly on the wall watching your behaviour or you had to write down every single thing that you’ve done to one video of your life would they know you were trying to recover and

Victoria Kleinsman (08:06.592)
you

Izzy (08:07.869)
Definitely not is the answer. Definitely not. So the words were there, but the actions, I could never get myself to sort of match my words.

Victoria Kleinsman (08:10.26)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (08:17.472)
And then what made you reach out to me? What point? So you’ve been going for four and a half years in this cycle and something within you was like, something needs to change if something needs to change. What brought you to me and my approach?

Izzy (08:22.995)
Yeah.

Izzy (08:27.741)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy (08:31.508)
So I started looking more into coaches like yourself and lots of others that I could find online. I’d already seen some of Tabitha’s stuff on YouTube and I bought her book, Rehabilitate, Rewire, Recover. And that for me was a game changer. It really was. Because of the way she described her experience being much more…

Victoria Kleinsman (08:52.062)
Yes, great book.

Izzy (09:00.573)
biological, which was what I really resonated with. I felt confident in her, the approach that she took to get herself better, if that makes sense. I didn’t feel as confident seeing therapists or relying on therapists that were telling me, like we need to look deep into your childhood and analyze all your behavior as to why this happened.

Victoria Kleinsman (09:01.833)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (09:13.823)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (09:18.559)
Hmm.

Izzy (09:29.521)
and don’t get me wrong, think that is important because I think that did play a part and many, many years and many sessions of CBT and other forms of therapy, okay, they weren’t able to get me better, but I think they are important and they do have a role, definitely. Exactly, exactly. And even for me, even for me, they were helpful in getting…

Victoria Kleinsman (09:29.759)
Yes.

Victoria Kleinsman (09:48.402)
Yeah, especially if it was someone who had a different experience to you who did stuff, actually always stuff before.

Izzy (09:57.095)
me to understand myself and getting me to a place where I could say that I did want to recover for a better life. So yeah, they were helpful. But then when I read her book, I was like, this, this is the practical side that I’ve been needing. And so then I started to look more into different people because all of the coaches have sort of similar fundamental

Victoria Kleinsman (10:04.362)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (10:12.991)
Yeah.

Izzy (10:25.67)
beliefs about recovery and approaches to recovery, but everyone’s slightly different and has slightly different things to bring to the table. And so I was watching and absorbing so much recovery content. But the fear, the fear after nearly five years to actually make the change was still so immense that I felt I needed a coach that I could work with.

Victoria Kleinsman (10:30.175)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (10:45.8)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy (10:55.174)
for a consistent period of time to sort of keep me going. I actually had a session with Tabatha herself. Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (11:01.642)
I was going to ask you about why that would be the most next sensible step to do after the book.

Izzy (11:05.754)
Yeah, yeah, no, I did have a session with her that was incredibly helpful. she honestly she makes me laugh because she’s as upfront and direct as as she comes across on YouTube. Like, it’s it’s brilliant. And it was exactly what I needed. I kick up the bum. But I also needed some more ongoing support. I knew everything she told me was completely right. But

Victoria Kleinsman (11:17.406)
She is.

Victoria Kleinsman (11:24.595)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (11:29.919)
Mm.

Izzy (11:35.272)
I felt like then when we had our discovery call, was like not only were you telling me all the things I needed to hear with the tough love, you were also then saying, but I’ll sort of carry you through that, come through that with you. Whereas with Tabitha, we just had like a one-off call. And so, like I say, I reached out to you, we did our little discovery introduction call and I ended that call.

Victoria Kleinsman (11:53.268)
Yes.

Yeah.

Izzy (12:04.592)
And I felt hope for myself for the first time since I got unwell. And so I was like, yep, this is my lady. We did. We did. Yeah. And I definitely don’t want it to sound like, yeah, so I struggled for five years and then I decided I was going to get better. I phoned a coach and then I was done. I was healed because

Victoria Kleinsman (12:06.88)
Hmm.

Victoria Kleinsman (12:14.656)
Yay! And we started then straight away didn’t we?

Victoria Kleinsman (12:30.386)
Bye.

no, that’s why we’re here, because we’re going to talk about it all. what do you want to do? In fact, I’ll leave it more open for you, Izzy. Let me just change my position. What do you kind of want to share now? So you found me, you shared a bit about your background. I think it’s worth speaking to the meal plan thing.

Izzy (12:34.501)
No. Yeah. Exactly.

Mm-hmm.

Izzy (12:45.606)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy (12:49.957)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (12:50.772)
So I’m just gonna kind of let you free rein. And if I want to interrupt you or ask a question, I’ll just like wave my hand. Is that cool with you? Because obviously, if you feel like you want me to ask you or you just you’re done speaking, obviously I will then come in and continue asking you. But I think intuitively that feels right because you’re sharing so beautifully. So continue.

Izzy (12:56.006)
Go for it. Yeah, of course.

Of course.

Izzy (13:10.407)
Specifically about the meal plans. Yeah, yeah. Of course. Yeah, I’ll start there because I think it’s really A, interesting and B, pretty important and has been for me. Like I say, when I first started getting help, I wasn’t fully on board or able to…

Victoria Kleinsman (13:13.554)
Not, well, just bring, tie that into what you’re gonna share. I think it will naturally get tied in anyway. Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (13:26.889)
Yeah.

Izzy (13:39.233)
engage with it. But it was that help that saved my life in the first place because we were on a very steep downwards trajectory. Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (13:41.107)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (13:51.582)
I think that’s worth saying, isn’t it? Because yeah, it’s all okay taking responsibility to recover, which we’ll go into, I’m sure. But if someone is like you were, who needed monitoring 24-7, who almost needed to be forced to eat, it saves the life that enabled you to then continue.

Izzy (13:58.458)
Yeah.

Izzy (14:06.797)
Exactly, exactly. And I think it’s, I think it’s the same, like with meal plans. They are not obviously the end goal. No one’s like dream life involves following a meal plan that’s super prescriptive and tells you what to eat when, et cetera. But they do have a time and a place and I have been in that time and place and

Victoria Kleinsman (14:30.387)
Yeah.

Izzy (14:37.634)
It feels like the worst thing in the whole world, but it, like I say, it is what saved my life. And I think, I think the whole idea of intuitively eating or I know we, you and now me would call it intuition eating rather than intuitive eating because of the kind of connotations that that can sometimes come with. But letting your body guide you to eat freely.

is the end goal, no question for me anyways. And without that, I wouldn’t feel like I had reached a full recovery if I couldn’t do that. That’s just my definition of how I would know when I am fully recovered. But I also think even if you’re not in the very, very early stages, I found myself sort of in the middle.

often very trapped saying yeah I’m gonna do intuitive eating I’m just gonna let my body guide me and I’m just gonna eat whatever I want and then it just so happened that every day what my body wanted was lettuce and dry tuna and yeah mm-hmm yes yeah and that was that was a little bit questionable and I I don’t want to sort of

Victoria Kleinsman (15:50.43)
Mm.

Just so to the podcast, she out quoted that, by the way.

Victoria Kleinsman (16:02.72)
in.

Izzy (16:06.242)
like poo poo myself because I know I was trying my best. I’ve always tried my best in recovery even when I’ve been doing so goddamn awfully I was trying my best. But you have to be so brutal with yourself or your coach has to be so brutal with you and it’s the same analogy we used at the beginning if there was a fly on the wall watching me eat dry tuna and plain iceberg lettuce at every meal they wouldn’t know that I was trying to

Victoria Kleinsman (16:15.006)
Mmm. Mmm.

Izzy (16:35.813)
gain weights would they? No. Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (16:37.15)
No, no. I remember that was quite a powerful point for you, wasn’t it? Because your goals was weight gain, obviously, because of where you’re at. And then I asked you that question, if I didn’t know you and I was watching you and I couldn’t speak to you by your actions, would I know you were trying to gain weight? And you was like, no.

Izzy (16:43.951)
Yeah.

Izzy (16:54.441)
No. Yeah. And obviously there’s so much, like I said, there’s so much fear. It’s so hard to make yourself, especially after a long period of time, like how are you supposed to even know what you want when all you’ve eaten is about three foods that are all quite boring and disgusting? You genuinely think that’s what you’re craving because everything else has been a hard no for so long that that’s…

Victoria Kleinsman (17:08.511)
Mmm.

Victoria Kleinsman (17:16.309)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy (17:21.493)
your head like that’s not really even an option. And so I think also using a meal plan to introduce new things sometimes is important and I was so desperate to reach that place of intuitive eating too soon I think for me. And it postponed making real progress in recovery for me because I was trying to do step seven before I’d mastered steps two and three.

Victoria Kleinsman (17:24.351)
Yes.

Victoria Kleinsman (17:39.304)
Yeah, yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (17:49.898)
Yeah.

Izzy (17:50.181)
And so I think sometimes knowing that that’s the goal and knowing but knowing that the way you’re going to get there quicker is to actually just use a bit more support in the short term, knowing that that’s a short term use of that meal plan or whatever it is, more support to allow you to reach a place where you can do something more free. Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (18:05.344)
Yes.

Victoria Kleinsman (18:13.598)
Yes. And what shifted, because I can remember and I’m sure you can, if not, I’ll invite you to remember the biggest realization you had, quite, I think it was from the first session actually, with my take on where you were at and what needs to be different. Can you remember like what it was specifically for you?

Izzy (18:17.816)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Izzy (18:32.387)
I think for me, when we first spoke, there was such an issue with responsibility for my own recovery. When I first got sick, I was 16 and very much a child living at home, et cetera. But by this point, I was 19 or 20 living away from home. like I say, I’ve been stuck in this cycle where

Victoria Kleinsman (18:43.988)
Yes.

Victoria Kleinsman (18:53.792)
Mm.

Izzy (19:01.6)
every time I’d been given responsibility, I got worse and handed it straight back and…

Victoria Kleinsman (19:07.358)
Why do you think that was? If someone recognises themselves in you now and they feel that they don’t know why they were doing that, why were you doing that, do you think? Can you remember why?

Izzy (19:13.208)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy (19:18.634)
why was I doing that? I think…

I think it’s because all the progress I had built to get to the point where people were comfortable to give me the responsibility wasn’t really my own. Like I had built something on the foundations that weren’t my, I mean, I was trying, yes, but they weren’t my efforts. Like all I was doing on the way up to that point was resisting. And I never learned.

Victoria Kleinsman (19:36.199)
and

Victoria Kleinsman (19:50.26)
Yeah.

Izzy (19:52.672)
any skills, any mindset changes, anything that was going to help me reclaim that responsibility when I got there. I was just sort of hoping someone else would get me better and then I’d take control. But obviously with hindsight, that’s never going to work. It has to come from you from the bottom. And I was just very stuck in a sort of childish mindset where…

Victoria Kleinsman (19:56.384)
Mm-hmm.

Victoria Kleinsman (20:05.716)
Yeah, yeah.

Yes.

Izzy (20:21.921)
like I could just put it all on my parents, that was kind of their job and in a way when I was very sick I would see it as like as if I could get away with eating less and moving more that was someone else’s mistake, that was someone else’s problem and I never really clocked on to the fact that it was only myself that I was damaging and it was only my life that I was wasting.

Victoria Kleinsman (20:26.451)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (20:50.719)
Yeah.

Izzy (20:51.743)
I was just so disconnected from owning any of Recovery. It felt like it wasn’t my job.

Victoria Kleinsman (20:59.424)
what changed when we started working together? Was it something I said? Was it multiple things that I said that you can’t remember to share now?

Izzy (21:04.835)
there was so much. I think there’s a couple of like major major things for me. Firstly, you would just always repeat that I had a choice. Everything was a choice. And that for me, after so long of forced recovery, again, I’m not shitting on it because it was necessary at the time. I had to be forced otherwise I would have been dead. So

Victoria Kleinsman (21:19.966)
Yes.

Victoria Kleinsman (21:26.621)
Mm.

Izzy (21:33.933)
you you win some, you lose some. But after so long of being like, you can’t do this, you keep getting this wrong, you know, we’re telling you, this is what you have to eat, and you have to eat it now, we don’t care if you’re hungry, we don’t care if you’re physically full, we don’t care if you prefer chocolate, because we’re having yogurt, and this is on the meal plan, da da da, very prescriptive. And suddenly you came, and we’re just like…

Victoria Kleinsman (21:34.548)
Yes. Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (21:47.253)
Hmm.

Izzy (22:03.264)
You could just have dinner at eight, not seven, if you’re not hungry yet, if you’re genuinely not hungry yet, because you’re an adult. And for me, that was revolutionary. had never even, even when I was trying to take more responsibility, it was like counting calories for the meal plan to make sure I was eating enough, blah, blah, still always very, very prescriptive. And that was the first inkling for me of

Victoria Kleinsman (22:13.312)
Yeah.

Izzy (22:33.856)
freedom. And it wasn’t, it didn’t start with freedom with the actual food, like the types of food I was eating. It came from just the mindset of like, you could choose to do anything. You could choose to have no dinner, but you’re not. So part of you does want to recover. You could choose to have six dinners and that would be really great for your recovery, but you don’t have the confidence to do that quite yet. So let’s find somewhere, you know, in the middle where we’re stretching.

Victoria Kleinsman (22:35.049)
Yes.

Victoria Kleinsman (22:41.727)
Yes.

Izzy (23:03.271)
and like growing and making changes but not to the point where it’s just too overwhelming and you can’t do anything. So definitely you telling me and reminding me always that there’s a choice and I’m either choosing recovery or I’m not.

Victoria Kleinsman (23:10.845)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (23:20.276)
Yes. Let me just add something for the listeners in at that point. That’s very powerful because I remember saying to you, and I say this to others as well and to myself, when we say things like, I should, I have to, I need to, I remember saying to you, no, you don’t have to eat. I I want you to eat because I want you to live in freedom, but you don’t have to. You can choose not to recover. And you were like, but.

Izzy (23:40.758)
Yeah.

yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (23:44.894)
I want to recover. So it’s giving you that space for you to be like, fuck, I actually do have a choice. I get to take responsibility over my life and my recovery. So therefore you were then given space, I think, for you to be like, what do I want? Not what am I being forced to do and I have to eat at this time because the meal plan says so in this much, but what do I actually want?

Izzy (23:47.775)
Yeah.

Izzy (24:07.67)
Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. And it was like, it’s almost like someone just pulls the rug out from under your feet because like I say, I’ve been resisting, resisting, resisting. Like anything that was put in front of me was like a threat. And I was just like, fighting against everything recovery. And then your approach was just like, if you’re not going to do it, you’re not going to do it. yeah, like if you don’t want to get better, that’s fine.

Victoria Kleinsman (24:14.927)
Mm-hmm.

Victoria Kleinsman (24:26.772)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (24:30.482)
Nothing to resist against. Nothing to resist against.

you

Izzy (24:37.887)
That’s fine. And then suddenly there’s nothing to resist. And I was like, no, no, no, I do want to get better. I do. promise. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So I think for me, that was probably the biggest thing, like stopping it being a fight and making it be more of a like surrender to recovery.

Victoria Kleinsman (24:42.944)
Tell me how, tell me how. Okay, let’s get to work then.

Victoria Kleinsman (24:54.537)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (25:02.462)
Yes. Okay, huge. Let’s talk about the fear because even though you had the realisation through my coaching that wait, what do I want and I get to choose and it’s all up to me from a place of power, not resistance, that doesn’t make the fear go away. I mean, it makes a fear more approachable, I guess, because you have autonomy over what you say you want. But how did you go through the fear? I know it’s probably hard to explain, isn’t it? But how did you do that?

Izzy (25:15.893)
Yeah.

Izzy (25:28.8)
Yeah

think there were two things. think having a coach like yourself who has been through it and is expert through experience was huge for me because we could sit on our calls and laugh about sort of shared experiences being really unwell that we had like our stories are very different but there are always sort of those shared experiences and

Victoria Kleinsman (25:51.68)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (25:58.869)
Yeah.

Izzy (25:59.753)
you could say to me every single week, yeah, I went through that. Yeah, I remember that. And yeah, I could see you living your life in complete freedom. And so I know that there is a path from where I am to where you were. And I know that you have walked that path. And so the trust that I had in you and what you were saying sort of allowed me to face that fear much more than I ever had.

Victoria Kleinsman (26:15.316)
Yes.

Izzy (26:29.396)
been able to when I was seeing experts through qualification, like therapists, et cetera. Because although I know they’re super smart, super well qualified, like I say, it’s just not the same as having someone be like, I did that myself and I got through it and I survived it. So definitely seeing your journey and talking to you about your journey was a massive sort of starting point.

Victoria Kleinsman (26:33.888)
Yes.

Victoria Kleinsman (26:43.572)
Yeah.

Izzy (26:58.388)
But the other thing is just starting and that is so annoying because like that’s the advice you don’t want to hear ever. But just one thing at a time, because I often still to this day, if I’m struggling with something or I have, you know, nasty ill thoughts, if I start, that’s the hardest bit.

Victoria Kleinsman (27:03.944)
I know.

Victoria Kleinsman (27:27.284)
Yeah.

Izzy (27:27.707)
And as soon as you prove to yourself that you can do one thing that you thought you were too scared to do, you start, you like sow a seed and then you’re like, well, I thought I definitely couldn’t do that and I did it. So what else is, what else am I telling myself that isn’t quite true? And then things start to come in pretty quickly, especially if you’re sort of new to recovery.

Victoria Kleinsman (27:37.278)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (27:47.349)
Yeah.

Izzy (27:58.227)
Honestly, my advice for facing the fear would just be do one thing, because the likelihood is it will make everything else so much easier pretty quickly.

Victoria Kleinsman (28:03.774)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (28:08.448)
Would you say that the fear of the fear of something is worse than actually doing it?

Izzy (28:15.132)
Yes, always, always, especially with regards to eating because in my head and many of your listeners heads, it literally feels like the be all and end all. Every single little mouthful or calorie or whatever it is for that individual feels like a massive deal. But for a normal eater, like, like I don’t want to put

Victoria Kleinsman (28:28.659)
it does.

Izzy (28:43.965)
calories or numbers on it but like what we would consider big amounts of food that’s just like give or take you know it’s not gonna make any difference for a normal eater it is not a big deal none of it is a big deal and I think getting real about that is is the same as like the fear of the fear because it’s it’s just it feels so big to us but in reality

Victoria Kleinsman (28:57.001)
Yes.

Victoria Kleinsman (29:08.628)
Yeah.

Izzy (29:14.151)
It’s not that, it’s not that scary.

Victoria Kleinsman (29:16.798)
And you showed yourself the reality of the it not being so scary by doing it in the fear. So there’s a great book called Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway. we’re underneath the fear of eating, we’re afraid of I mean, multiple things, the list goes on, but underneath it all at the root of everything is a fear of not being able to handle it, whatever it is. So when you’ve started facing your fears from a new place of responsibility,

Izzy (29:18.921)
Yeah.

Izzy (29:25.257)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy (29:37.34)
Yes.

Izzy (29:44.071)
Mm-hmm.

Victoria Kleinsman (29:45.246)
What did you do with the guilt and the shame and the panic and all the stuff that came after you faced the fear? Because beyond fear lies freedom, but not immediately. You have to keep repeating it.

Izzy (29:54.194)
Yeah. no. Yeah. Yeah. What did I do with it? Cried a lot to my mom. And again, unhelpful, mean, not unhelpful, but probably unwanted advice that you’ve heard a million trillion times is you have to just sit with it because, and this is

Victoria Kleinsman (30:21.621)
Yep.

Izzy (30:23.862)
not like something that I mastered straight away by any means. I would sort of like force myself to challenge myself with the food but then I’d go on a run and then that was just all undone. I may as well have just starved myself the whole day because it’s pointless and it gets so like a web of

Victoria Kleinsman (30:37.333)
Yeah.

Izzy (30:51.611)
you know, well I’ll eat this and then I’ll try and compensate with this but if I have this at this time then I’ll do this and you’re trying to work it out, work it out but there’s nothing to work out. It’s going to be uncomfortable for a period of time and the sooner you can get through that period of uncomfortableness the sooner it will be over. Yeah. Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (30:59.879)
Exactly.

Victoria Kleinsman (31:09.086)
Yeah. So you embrace the discomfort. Would you say, well, perhaps not embraced it, but you stopped resisting the discomfort. And obviously you had my support with like, yeah.

Izzy (31:21.116)
Mm-hmm.

Victoria Kleinsman (31:22.502)
like it’s going to be uncomfortable. Newsflash, like truth bomb, you will not get to the other side of recovery without being uncomfortable, without wanting to crawl out your skin and without wanting to just run out of who you are and sleep for a week till it all passes. I have been there, I know what that feels like. But for having me and you know, your mum especially was a big support for you. Just hold you in the feelings to express them.

Izzy (31:26.246)
Yeah.

Izzy (31:35.068)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Izzy (31:44.605)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (31:46.952)
and then you’re okay at the end of it. You might not feel great, but you’ve survived what before you did this thing, what your brain and nervous system was telling you was gonna be the death of you. You survived and then like you said, you do one thing and then another thing. Yeah.

Izzy (31:57.253)
Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, no, absolutely. And sort of tying into that is the same kind of mindset, but really remembering and keeping at the forefront of my brain that I was in, am in, active recovery from anorexia. It was very, very easy for me to like look at people around me and be like,

Victoria Kleinsman (32:17.631)
Yes.

Izzy (32:25.405)
I’m kind of eating the same as them now, so I think that’s fine. But that for me was a massive pitfall over and over and over. Like I do better and then I’d be like, okay, that’s fine. That’s good enough. But then I’d slowly slip backwards again and again and again. And for a period of time, really being like, no, like this, am going.

Victoria Kleinsman (32:46.58)
Yeah.

Izzy (32:54.659)
into recovery. I’m in recovery. I’m gaining weight. I’m doing this actively. I’m choosing to do this. And with recovery from anorexia comes bloating, comes discomfort, comes mental hunger, comes all the emotion. And I know that’s coming and I can’t sort of, I can’t plan for it. I don’t quite know what’s going to hit when, but I can be prepared. And like, I know that the likelihood is I’m going to feel really

Victoria Kleinsman (33:10.162)
Yeah.

Izzy (33:24.668)
sick or really uncomfortable or really whatever it is guilty after this meal but I’m feeling that because I’m getting I’m going through this process to get to a place where I where I want to be and just sort of claiming not forever or for as short a time as possible I guess but really claiming the identity of someone in recovery and just like reminding myself that that was my only job at the time everything else was

Victoria Kleinsman (33:52.636)
Yes, I was going to ask you about identity actually because I mean you identified as what will you tell me when you came to me and you were kind of in a resistant forced recovery what was your identity and then when you shifted to actually I’m choosing and I want to recover therefore my actions are going to show that

Izzy (33:54.353)
great.

Izzy (34:03.729)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy (34:11.855)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (34:12.442)
to what you’ve just said, actually, I’m going to choose to identify someone who is in active recovery. So therefore I need to act like it, not like someone who’s recovered who just eats intuition, Ali. What was your identity shift and how did you navigate that? Because that’s one of the biggest fears of people in recovery to be like, well, who would I be without the eating disorder then?

Izzy (34:19.121)
Yeah.

Izzy (34:22.416)
Yeah. Yeah.

Izzy (34:31.611)
Yeah, I think it’s really interesting thing to think about for me personally. Like I say, I got unwell when I was like 16, so still very young, and then spent a long time in a very weird place where I was still sort of friends with my same friends that knew me before I was unwell, but I was so…

poorly for so many years that obviously anorexia and all the eating disorders drain your social life because every single social plan involves food and drink which is just the most annoying thing. It’s a great thing. At the time it was annoying but I really like I had no interest in going out.

Victoria Kleinsman (35:11.434)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (35:16.48)
But no, it’s a great thing because you get to enjoy it. Yes.

Izzy (35:28.956)
I didn’t want to see my friends really. I was grumpy all the time and like I say, all I was thinking about was movement and food. And so I don’t honestly, I don’t really know what my identity was. I didn’t have the experience because of how rapidly I got unwell. I didn’t have the fairly common experience of like being known for being a gym bunny or like being a fitness girl. That was never me.

Victoria Kleinsman (35:47.944)
Yeah.

Izzy (35:56.827)
And then it was literally we went into lockdown, we went back to school and everyone was like, oh my God, what’s happened to her? And I guess I did then for a period of time take on an identity that was someone who was unwell and struggling with their eating. And like I say, I didn’t do very much socially.

Victoria Kleinsman (35:56.96)
Mm.

Victoria Kleinsman (36:01.738)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Izzy (36:24.761)
that was sort of helped by the fact that were in and out of lockdown for a while. And then I took a year out between school and going to university. And so lots of my friends went away, either traveling or straight to university during that time. And I spent a lot of time at home trying to recover in that cycle that we spoke about earlier. And so I don’t really know what my identity was when we first

Victoria Kleinsman (36:44.308)
Yeah.

Izzy (36:54.415)
when we first like met or started our coaching with regards to, well, I definitely still had my personality from before my illness. But like I say, everything was just dulled down and like covered by a blanket of illness.

Victoria Kleinsman (37:10.911)
Yeah.

And also you started it in adolescence. So you weren’t an adult knowing who you were, knowing what you chose to identify with. And then the eating sort of came. It came, like for me, it came when I was like 11, 12. As you were growing into the woman, you may become. And so that, you beautifully describing it just dampened and numbed everything. So you probably didn’t really know who you were really. Yeah.

Izzy (37:19.181)
Yeah.

Izzy (37:32.825)
Yeah

Izzy (37:38.464)
Exactly, I don’t think I did at all and I think I’m still discovering that. I didn’t have those sort of formative years where most people decide, actually that’s for me, that’s not for me, I like this, I like that. Like I say, all I was thinking about was my next meal. I didn’t give any thoughts to who I was or anything like that until I started sort of really leaning into recovery and thinking like, okay, there actually could be a life after this.

Victoria Kleinsman (37:51.592)
Yes.

Yeah.

Izzy (38:07.214)
where my life isn’t just ruled by what I eat and how I move. And I think that was another thing that really attracted me to doing coaching with you in particular, because the way you sold me recovery was like a whole lifestyle shift. It wasn’t just like, we’ll just fix this little eating issue you’ve got on the side and then you can go back to normal life. It was like, you can live.

Victoria Kleinsman (38:11.284)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (38:25.824)
Mm.

Victoria Kleinsman (38:30.112)
Yes.

Izzy (38:33.76)
every single day for the rest of your life in complete freedom, you don’t have to do anything and that was revolutionary. Even for me pre-illness, I don’t think I would have ever thought like that had I not had the experience I had or done coaching.

Victoria Kleinsman (38:52.136)
Most people don’t, sadly, because bringing this into a worldwide thing, how I see it, a lot of people go to jobs they don’t particularly like, to pay the mortgage they have to pay, and all these things. I’m not saying that everyone should just complete drop all responsibilities and all of that, but if you don’t like your job, you don’t have to stay. So worldwide here, people do what they don’t like to do because they feel like you have to do things you don’t want to do sometimes.

Izzy (38:56.301)
Hmm.

Izzy (39:18.755)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (39:19.232)
Not ultimately, not if you create a life that you are in love with. So I remember our last coaching session, I think you came, you brought the question and the conversation up around what’s next, like.

Izzy (39:25.219)
Yeah.

Izzy (39:31.001)
Hmm.

Victoria Kleinsman (39:31.456)
What is next for me? How do I get to tune into what I want for life? So do you want to share now how your relationship with food is now? I know you’re still, you wouldn’t class yourself as recovered full stop, but just share like in comparison to how you were, how you are now, and then share with us what’s next for you.

Izzy (39:49.037)
Okay, so at the moment, I would definitely still say I’m very much in recovery, in active recovery. I still have some more weight I want to gain and I still have, you know, habits that I’ve formed over the however many years it’s been that I’m actively working on breaking. But I feel like

I don’t doubt anymore that I will get better and I will reach a place of full recovery. I know exactly what I need to do and I’ve proven to myself enough times now that the method that we have followed works. If I really do it honestly, honestly with myself, honestly with people around me,

Victoria Kleinsman (40:37.758)
Yes.

Izzy (40:45.226)
I know I will get there and that’s insane to say that from where I’ve been, that feels amazing. And so for me now I feel it’s just time. It’s keeping up the momentum that I have sort of built up with our coaching, keeping that going and then going and going and going beyond recovery because I think I…

Victoria Kleinsman (40:55.06)
Yes.

Izzy (41:13.826)
I struggle to say that it’s been a blessing, but actually, in some ways, it some ways definitely has been a blessing. The rest of my life would never have looked the way I think it looks now had I not been unwell and had I not learnt so much about myself, about life, about freedom, about everything that we’ve sort of gone through. And I went through, even prior to our coaching with therapy, I wouldn’t have had that experience had I not.

Victoria Kleinsman (41:33.62)
Yeah. Yeah.

Izzy (41:43.737)
and the future, what does the future look like for me? I want to finish my degree and then beyond that I’m not 100 % sure but for the first time ever that doesn’t panic me as much as it used to. I think I have learnt through my experience.

Victoria Kleinsman (41:44.926)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (42:03.909)
Yes.

Izzy (42:12.012)
that if you are happy and if you are healthy, you’re rich in life. And having been down, down in the depths of everything.

Victoria Kleinsman (42:16.722)
Absolutely.

Victoria Kleinsman (42:23.711)
Mm.

Izzy (42:27.714)
Honestly, all of sort of quote unquote normal life feels like a blessing. And I don’t have, I used to have all this pressure from myself, like, I’m an academic person, so I must do well in my exams and I must have a job that is quote unquote, you know, high achieving and successful. And I must be successful in my life and earn money because da da da da. And I really, really felt that pressure even when I was really young.

Victoria Kleinsman (42:48.319)
Mm.

Izzy (42:57.879)
But now, if I am well, if I can make a full recovery and I’m… when, sorry, when I make a full recovery and I’m comfortable enough to get by in life, that’s all I need, really, really. And so I don’t quite know, but that can be exciting, not scary. Yeah, it is, it is.

Victoria Kleinsman (42:58.089)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (43:23.188)
Health is wealth and it’s a bit cringy, but it’s true.

It’s so true. so following the breadcrumbs, I think I spoke to you about this before, like following the next step for you, we don’t have to know. In fact, I invite people not to know what your five year plan is because you could change your mind in a minute. You could change your mind next year, depending on where you allow your life to guide you. So in terms of just some tangible differences, so people who resonate with where you were on a meal plan and things like that.

Izzy (43:36.908)
Yeah.

Izzy (43:53.398)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (43:55.998)
compared to where you are now, still in recovery. My question to you was what’s stopping you from being recovered? What you answered that already through just being consistent and time with what you know and then you will reach there. What was my question for you? Wait, yeah. In comparison to how you were eating when you started coaching, how do you eat now in comparison to then?

Izzy (44:05.014)
Yeah.

Izzy (44:13.9)
Yeah.

Izzy (44:17.559)
Wow. Very differently. I think I want to caveat this by saying obviously not everyone struggling is underweight or has ever been underweight. It’s just in my experience, I spent a long time very underweight. And so I have been through and continue to sometimes go through periods of pretty extreme eating.

Victoria Kleinsman (44:34.751)
Yeah.

Izzy (44:46.967)
because my body has been so malnourished for so long and so like obviously if you looked at what I ate in a day back in the day and you look at some of the days I’ve had more recently there’s a very obvious difference in volume and caloric value not just volume of vegetables.

Victoria Kleinsman (45:13.194)
Do you mean in comparison to the eating disorder or the meal plan or both?

Izzy (45:18.426)
Definitely to the eating disorder and on more hungry days definitely even to the meal plan.

Victoria Kleinsman (45:26.09)
Good, so fly on the wall. Hey, she looks like she’s actually wanting to gain weight. Good.

Izzy (45:28.082)
Yeah, she looks like she’s doing that. Yes, exactly. But also variety was a massive sort of sticking point for me. And sometimes still is. I sometimes am prone to getting really like fixated onto one thing, which is fine as long as I know I can continue the other things. Like I could do that. So it’s again, just like keeping checking in with myself like.

Victoria Kleinsman (45:51.573)
Yeah.

Izzy (45:56.744)
If all I’m wanting for every single snack is Coco Pops, that’s so fine. As long as if there were no Coco Pops, I could have something else and that doesn’t cause me to panic. So just staying vigilant about that. But yeah, I mean, it looks, it looks very, very different and more relaxed. Yes, it just feels more relaxed.

Victoria Kleinsman (46:06.021)
Yes. Yes.

Victoria Kleinsman (46:17.684)
How does it feel? Yeah, was going to say, it’s almost like you know my question. How does it feel in comparison to following the meal plan?

Izzy (46:26.676)
Yeah, feels… it just feels right and that sort of doesn’t… I mean it does make sense I guess. It feels like I am learning and developing this relationship with my body where it’s just… starting to trust me again and it’s starting to say like, okay, when we said more Coco Pops, she actually did that.

So maybe if we ask for something else, she’ll do something, she’ll give us that. And it’s like a conversation now. And like I said, that it’s really, it feels trusting and I feel like I’m, it feels like a relationship with another person that I’m sort of growing and fostering rather than before. I just felt so disconnected. didn’t have hunger, fullness, any of it. I would have just told you I felt full the whole time.

Victoria Kleinsman (47:22.921)
you

Izzy (47:26.325)
which I probably did because the meal plan was quite large and I wasn’t used to eating that amount of food. None of that was a lie as such but there was just no like no connection at all and and it was just so regimented again like I did need that at periods of my recovery and of my journey but I’m so grateful for like

Victoria Kleinsman (47:41.354)
connection to cell.

Izzy (47:56.149)
to now be in a position where I can start developing that relationship because it feels right. It doesn’t feel like, oh, I’m having to follow this meal plan because I’m trying to get better from anorexia, blah, blah, blah, No, it feels like this is a relationship I’m growing and I will have forever. It’s not like, like a big fear for me on the meal plan was what about when I gain all the weight?

Victoria Kleinsman (48:24.512)
Mm.

Izzy (48:25.98)
So then I have to go back to restriction. No way am I letting myself get to that point where I have to go back to restriction. No way. And so that was such a roadblock for me. Whereas this approach, like this is something you’re growing and you will inevitably go through periods of where it feels very extreme and very unhealthy because you just want sugar every single second of the day. But actually I can very

Victoria Kleinsman (48:28.273)
Mm.

Victoria Kleinsman (48:32.52)
Yeah.

Izzy (48:55.176)
very easily see how this approach is approach I will follow forever, a healthy way if I, you know, if my weight ever goes up or ever goes down, can just, have this relationship that I would have worked so hard on that I know I can trust and I never have to think about it again once I’ve developed that connection. Thank you.

Victoria Kleinsman (49:15.36)
That’s beautiful That’s so beautiful and it’s gonna carry you through life because it’s just being connected back with the self and that relates to food it relates to Relationships what relationship feels right for you what feels wrong it relates to what career you want to do. It’s everything. It’s not just food So last two questions question one. What’s the biggest thing you’ve learned in recovery?

Izzy (49:21.992)
Yeah.

Izzy (49:32.626)
Yeah. Yeah.

Izzy (49:41.541)
my gosh, what is the biggest?

Izzy (49:48.248)
I probably have to… Biggest.

Victoria Kleinsman (49:54.748)
or perhaps the thing that may be surprised, not this question exactly but maybe something that surprised you that you learnt.

Izzy (50:01.62)
Yeah, I think it’s sort of boring because we’ve already discussed it a little bit, but I think the mentality of freedom in regards to everything in life, that sort of realisation I had when we first spoke was very much like with regards to the food and my eating, but through our coaching calls, we’ve spoken about it in many, many different, you know,

Victoria Kleinsman (50:15.954)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy (50:30.809)
areas of life. And I think for me that shift to, like, you don’t actually have to do anything. And you don’t have to follow that path. And just because it’s, I don’t know what most people would do, or it’s because what you think is, you know, people would approve of or anything like, you don’t have to do anything. And that is something

Victoria Kleinsman (50:32.329)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (50:46.826)
Mm.

Victoria Kleinsman (50:58.44)
Yeah.

Izzy (51:00.371)
that I know I would have never sort of learned without becoming unwell and without having to go through recovery.

Victoria Kleinsman (51:11.208)
Yeah, you’re free to be free or you’re free to be bound.

Izzy (51:13.661)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (51:18.612)
We’re always free and like I say, this is gonna be so crucial for you and anyone who’s listening who really grasps this. You don’t have to do anything. I mean, some people will come out with, okay, yeah, I have to go to work to pay the mortgage. Short term, yes, but long term, if you’re not happy with your relationship with food, relationship with your body, relationship with your husband, the career you have, fucking change it then. You have the power to change it. Anything, know, and a bit about me just to give people a bit of it more inspiration.

Izzy (51:45.168)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (51:48.638)
Yeah, I’m very blessed that I haven’t grown up in like poverty or anything like that. But when I first moved to the Netherlands, I had to get a job cleaning student toilets and student showers because I couldn’t speak the language.

Izzy (51:53.181)
Mm-hmm.

Victoria Kleinsman (52:00.99)
basically because I couldn’t speak the language. So I was literally cleaning shit off walls in toilets and getting hair from showers, listening fully in an eating disorder, listening to podcasts and things. And then I decided I wanted to get better myself. And then I decided I wanted to help other people. And so I created my own business, which now has a wait list.

Izzy (52:10.899)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (52:24.626)
I now get to manage my time in however way I want to, like living the dream because I created it. So everyone else can also create what they want. It takes effort, yes. It takes facing fears, yes, but you can do it with anything, recovery, career, anything. So last question Izzy. If someone’s listening to this and they’re like, my God, I’m where Izzy was.

Izzy (52:31.837)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy (52:50.449)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (52:51.486)
what would you say to them, what words of wisdom or inspiration would you say to them to encourage them to take the step to be where you are and then ultimately where I am in their own version of that.

Izzy (53:03.154)
would say two things. would say firstly, no one regrets really recovering. Like you just don’t hear of that. You hear of people reaching a sort of getting a little bit better and then regretting it and relapsing. But people that make a full, genuine recovery using approaches like yours and like sort of many other coaches online.

Victoria Kleinsman (53:15.944)
Mm-mm.

Victoria Kleinsman (53:22.516)
Yeah.

Izzy (53:32.818)
they don’t regret that. You just won’t find people that have done it properly and regret it and that has to stand for something. And it also means that it is possible and if it’s possible for all these people out like yourself it’s possible for anyone. It doesn’t mean it will be easy but it is definitely possible and if you do it you definitely won’t

Victoria Kleinsman (53:43.422)
Yeah.

Izzy (54:02.468)
at it. And the second thing, which was my, probably my biggest, like why, for sort of starting, even before our coaching, like for even reaching out to a coach, was a quote, I don’t even know if it’s a proper quote, maybe I just made it up, is that I would say to myself over and over again, all stories end the same, which sounds really morbid, but

At the end of the day, everyone’s story ends the same, everyone dies. And when that day comes for me, whenever it may be, you’re going to have to, or I’m going to have to look back on my life and am I really, is there ever going to be a scenario where I think, yeah, thank God I stayed really skinny. Thank God, because that was 100 % worth it. Or am I going to say,

Victoria Kleinsman (54:36.81)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (54:55.082)
Yeah

Izzy (55:01.422)
Christ, Christ, I’ve reached the end of my life and I don’t have any friends. I don’t have a family because I lost my fertility to my eating disorder. Like, I don’t have any memories really because I couldn’t go on holiday because, you know, I didn’t want to sit on the plane for three hours because that was too long without movement. And just that image alone was enough for me to be like, yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (55:19.796)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Izzy (55:30.257)
And I know, I know, I know, I know that you, speaking to anyone that is in the same position, will hear that and be like, yeah, okay, I really want to recover. And then you’ll get to your next meal and have a large bowl of whatever it may be and be like, actually, maybe I don’t care. But just keeping that in the forefront of your mind, set it as your lock screen, make a poster, get it on post-it notes, do whatever.

Victoria Kleinsman (55:50.706)
Mm-hmm.

Izzy (56:00.207)
You have to remember that if you don’t stop the cycle, it will carry on. It will carry on forever. And then that’s your whole life. And that’s so scary. But you can stop it. You can stop the cycle.

Victoria Kleinsman (56:17.128)
literally have goosebumps. What an incredibly powerful way to end and for you to share, Izzy. So thank you because I have nothing to say. Truth bomb, mic drop. Yep. I have nothing else to say apart from thank you for sharing your story, Izzy. And thank you for trusting me to be your coach and to guide you. It’s been an absolute honor to see you flourish and to see who you are now in comparison to the woman I met.

Izzy (56:24.176)
No problem.

Hahaha

Izzy (56:31.563)
pretty. My pleasure.

Izzy (56:39.343)
No, thank you.

Victoria Kleinsman (56:46.88)
those months ago. You’re welcome my love. Enjoy your rest of the days in Portugal and much love to you. Bye lovely.

Izzy (56:48.378)
Thank you so much.

Izzy (56:52.536)
Thank you. Bye bye.