Victoria Kleinsman (00:01.322)
Awesome! Well, I mean, we’ve chatted off air, you and I are friends, Laura, but welcome officially to the Body Love Binge podcast.

Thank you so much for having me.

So would you share with the listeners who you are, what do you do, and why do you do what you do?

So I’m a confidence and dating coach for high achieving women. What this means is that I help women become who they need to become in order to have the life they want to have, if that makes sense. And the reason why I’m doing it is because

especially when it comes to the dating part, like confidence is just something that I’ve naturally always had a lot of and I’ve always been like a source of inspiration for people around me. So that’s just sort of something that just comes easy for me to spread onto others. And it’s very intuitive for me to teach when it comes to dating though. The reason why I’m so passionate about teaching that specifically to women is because I struggled with dating for the longest time myself.

Laura Nagiel (01:09.834)
And so I felt like I had control in every area of my life except for dating. So when I sort of found the method, found my answers, it only felt natural and right that I share it.

Yeah, I think it’s so common in the best way, especially speaking from experience myself, I’ve become a coach in that I’ve experienced myself and many people that I interview, they’ve been through something themselves, found the answer and they just want to share it with the world. So I think in my opinion, that’s the best way to become a coach through personal experience because when people…

Mm.

Victoria Kleinsman (01:47.574)
are sharing with you how they feel, I know that you’re not them, but you really can relate on a different level to how they might be feeling at a certain time that you’re guiding them.

Yeah, a hundred percent. And, you also have the perspective. So, so, and I’m sure you share that view as well, is that the best client for us as coaches is basically us from a few years ago. And so not only can you, like the context might be slightly different. Everyone’s personal context is different, but this story at the core is the same. And so not only do you have the understanding of where they are, what they’re going through, what they’re feeling.

But you also have that perspective of like, what’s, of what’s after that, like that insight that comes with, with retrospection, with the time just passing from that situation, from that struggle. And so, yeah, that, that passion driven coaching is probably what gives, what gives the best results.

Yeah, I fully agree with that one. So let’s dive straight into confidence. Thanks. A lot of my clients come to me struggling with obviously an eating disorder, which comes with lack of confidence. Usually it’s either lack of confidence in general or an overinflated sense of false confidence within themselves, which actually I can see a mile off because I used to be that person who pretended that everything was great and fine and they were confident. But

So, yes, I think.

Victoria Kleinsman (03:15.04)
I didn’t even know who I was. So what is your take on confidence and how can people become more confident? Let’s like kind of zoom it down into like their body, their body image, like how they show up and take up space in the world.

I love you.

Laura Nagiel (03:28.685)
So let’s start off with understanding what really confidence is, because I think we very often get it wrong and we think that confidence and self-love and self-esteem, these are just like three terms that you can use interchangeably, but that’s not how it is at all, at least not how I see it.

Nope.

Confidence is built through action. Confidence is knowing that whatever I set my mind to, I can achieve. And then self-love and self-esteem is how we see ourselves, what we deep down believe we are worthy of. So even if the, like you said, this performative confidence, like it’s there because I know that if I work hard enough, if I’m strategic enough, if I push through it, grind through it, I’m going to get to that goal.

Even if you do get to it, you very often have that imposter syndrome or just feel like you don’t deserve it, like it’s wrong that you have it. And so this is why we need to have that understanding of the difference between the two terms. Now, when it comes to confidently taking up space and also being confident in your self-image, confidence

in that area is a byproduct of self-love and of self-esteem. And so the work doesn’t start with, if I was struggling with self-confidence, why am I getting so excited about this? I just want to share so much so quickly. Anyway, let me slow down.

Victoria Kleinsman (04:54.303)
Peace.

Victoria Kleinsman (05:05.838)
Let’s start again.

Laura Nagiel (05:13.953)
when I have a client who comes to me with a self-confidence issue and it really is self-confidence, we start with taking action step by step and building proof that way, stocking proof. And this is how the confidence grows. Now, when the problem is with the self-esteem, none of that confidence stacking is going to be sustainable. You can build it for a while, but it will still collapse. And so.

Mm-hmm.

Where we need to start is with asking ourselves, what is it about me that makes it uncomfortable for me to be seen?

Yes.

start there, identify it and then depending on what it is, because sometimes it’s a fear of rejection. It’s a fear of something that’s external, So fear of rejection, making a fool of ourselves, letting people down, underperforming. Sometimes it’s something that’s within us. So for me personally, the fact that

Laura Nagiel (06:19.917)
I’m not a native English speaker and I had an accent for the longest time that gave me such a strong fear of being seen because I was like, what if, you know, that changes how people see me as long as I’m hiding behind writing? No one will know. So that would hold me.

which is really interesting because I love your accent. I think it’s Anne Michaels as well, like anyone who has an accent. I’m married to a Dutch man who has a strong English accent. So what I love about you is the interest in that perhaps in the past you’ve rejected or pushed that away. But actually I really liked that and loved that about that part.

you

Laura Nagiel (06:46.131)
Mm.

Laura Nagiel (06:54.877)
Hmm. Yeah. So this is about, and like you said now, well, you didn’t say it, that, but that’s sort of, that was part of my process. Embracing you. You said you liked that about me. I needed to learn to not just accept it or like tolerate it. That was the journey. Tolerate it, accept it, embrace it, love it. Because now I see my heritage as something that

as an edge, you know, it’s a certain perspective, which when people know that I’m Polish, Eastern European, whatever, they can already get a sense of where I’m coming from. Obviously they just make an assumption. Is it correct or not? You know, they will learn as they get to know me, but, and I get to decide what I identify with and what I don’t identify with, but it allows them to understand my world better.

quicker and connect with me quicker. And that works not just in business, but also just, you know, wherever you are, it just makes it so much easier to connect with people. And especially when you’re Polish, there are so many immigrants everywhere, right? Especially from Eastern Europe. So these connections are made easily. And I’m sure that there are so many things that each of us have that, you know, we are, we’re hiding or burying them because they feel like

this thing that we might be rejected for when in reality, this can be the thing that makes it easier for you to make a connection, to be seen either positively or even if you do get rejected, you at least know very quickly they were never your people.

yeah, that’s for sure. So let’s say, can you give me either a made up client example or maybe a real client example, obviously not including the client’s name, where someone’s came to you with low confidence, low self-esteem, wanting to enter the dating world? Because many of my clients, when I ask them what they want to achieve while working with me, obviously it’s recovering from an eating disorder. And I say, think bigger, give me a bigger picture of like…

Victoria Kleinsman (09:05.41)
what you want your life to be and then very often it will be meeting my person or getting out dating again. So it’s something that my clients definitely would resonate with. So let’s say someone comes to you that wanting to be in a dating world, they have low self-esteem.

you

Victoria Kleinsman (09:19.758)
that’s deeper than low confidence. So where would you start? If you give an example of perhaps what the root reason was for the low confidence and low self-esteem, then a few examples and golden nuggets of like what you would do to support them into taking the actions that then stay stacked as proof and not just collapse because the foundation of esteem is not there.

Yeah, sure. So when I have clients who struggle with that low self-esteem, low confidence, and the funny thing is often when they come to me, they say they’re very confident and that like confidence, self-love is not an issue. It’s like 10 out of 10. And only as we sort of progress, we learned that actually it’s not. And, but one of the symptoms, so maybe let’s start there, like

Even if you see yourself as somebody who’s confident or, know, deep down, maybe you don’t feel a hundred percent good with yourself, but you’re like, I’m very confident in the mask I can put on and that I can present myself as a confident person. Let’s start there because how you function in the world and how you function in dating are often very two completely different things. Why? Because dating is an extremely, extremely vulnerable area.

Mm.

Laura Nagiel (10:34.071)
This is where you have to put yourself out there. You have to be like, you will face rejection. That’s just part of the process. And so if you’re not grounded in your self-love, if your self-esteem is not stable, this is going to be so difficult. And this is what very often stops women, people in general from dating because they’re like, I just have, and this is when they come up with all of these BS excuses, you know, I’m too busy. I’m not ready.

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (11:03.915)
whatever, someday. Coming back though. So when I have a client who comes to me and she’s like, many things are working, but they think it’s not working. They very often, when self-esteem is the problem, they very often have a track of toxic relationships. And so either like textbook narcissists that they’re in relationships with, very often on and off, or just

would

Laura Nagiel (11:33.911)
just messy, messy situations. And sometimes they are aware that this is narcissism they’re dealing with. Sometimes they don’t, but this is, so this is where we need to get started. So when I first started working with a client, we really dive deep into their dating history so that we can spot these patterns. And then, and then we look at the behaviors, at the things that were

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (12:01.169)
one, accepted by them, but also what was being said to them. Because even if that person is not a narcissist, but this is a toxic relationship, there are many things being said that are beyond unhealthy. They’re just, they’re so hurtful, especially when they’re just being drilled into you. And so things that are often said are, you’re so lucky to be with me, like no one else would want you.

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (12:27.485)
Especially when it’s women in their 30s, but the sort of second half of the decade, your time is running out. You want to have kids? I’m your only choice. No one will accept you and your family in that package. are things about their looks as well, you know, like you’re old.

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (12:52.385)
You’re overweight, you’re this, you’re that. So like they’re trying to really, they’re really going for it, right? They’re going for all the biggest insecurities. So, so this is what we get started with really putting it all out there. This is a very painful process because not only do they have to face and verbalize the insecurities that they carry that just come from way back, even earlier than the relationships.

Mm.

So those, the things said by former partners, and then when we put it all out there, we think of how do we tackle that? And sometimes it’s about spotting that just because somebody said it, it doesn’t mean it’s true. So it’s disarming these beliefs that they have. And especially when it comes to looks,

Mm.

Laura Nagiel (13:51.365)
and age. These are very often things that have nothing to do with reality. This is just what that former partner wants you to believe so they can have control over you. And then from that, there is like a whole range of other limiting beliefs that comes up. So we start by identifying them. then

Can I add something in to that what you’ve said there? A coach once said to me, and this was so true, and she said, if you were to line up all of your exes in a row, like your serious relationships, what is reflected back to you then is your self-esteem at the time of that relationship. So if your relationships aren’t improving as you’re doing this,

you’re not doing the work and I believe that we attract what we believe about ourselves. So obviously if our partner is a mirror of our self-esteem and we have a shit partner or an abusive partner, we always need to look within, well for everything in my opinion, but then in order to change the relationship, this is of course what you’re saying, we need to change ourselves and what’s going on there. So how would someone if they’re working with you and they’re like, okay,

the history of dating that’s very painful and my God, there’s this pattern. Like I’m attracting these people to me over and over again. I assume you’re then like, why? Like what need are they thinking they’re getting met or trying to get met through dating these toxic people over and over again without anything changing until they come to you, obviously.

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (15:26.893)
So I don’t necessarily do like, of course, we do, we do explore, we do go in depth, we do talk about these things, but that’s not something that would necessarily be like universal advice that I can share on here that makes sense. But then so that’s the very first step. what comes after that, I think is very valuable for everyone listening, because what we do is we don’t just think, OK, so

This is what you’re going to stop doing. This is you’re going to stop thinking because first of all, it doesn’t work if you just tell yourself, I’m not going to do that from now on. But we start with creating a vision, what it is that you want in a relationship, in a partner. And then we take an honest look at who they are right now. Because

Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (16:10.094)
Mm-hmm.

Laura Nagiel (16:19.081)
Very often what happens is they have, if they do, sometimes they literally don’t know what they want in a partner. They’re just like, I know this is what I don’t want, but I, I don’t know how to build something healthy because all I know is toxicity. So sometimes we start there by creating a list. but sometimes they do have a list. And then when we look at that list, the way I like to do it is in four, four categories. So one is the sort of on paper stuff.

So the type of work they have, because for some people that matters, right? Like somebody who’s, for example, independent, very mobile, you know, doesn’t work a nine to five because it’s not compatible with their lifestyle. The languages they speak, that was important for me. For example, there are certain, there are just certain physical traits that you might have a preference for. But that’s usually very short list, especially for women.

Mm-hmm.

Laura Nagiel (17:17.197)
We talk about how do I want that partner to make me feel. And we also talk about how I make him feel or her feel. What situations would be an expression of these traits that they have and that I have in that relationship. And then…

Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (17:43.916)
Yeah.

what we look at. So you have your list, what you want in your partner, you know who you want to be in that relationship. And then we compare the person you are now. Does that match? Where are the gaps? Because if on your list is that your partner is emotionally intelligent and that you can argue in a way that’s peaceful and respectful because that wasn’t the case in your relationship. You’re the type of person who can set boundaries.

And your partner is a leader. They take care of you. You never had that previously. You were the person always pushing everything forward. So you look at that on the flip side is that you are a person who can trust their partner. You’re a person who can allow others to lead, who can delegate, who doesn’t have to control everything. You have that, but then your current personality is extreme type A.

I have everything my way. I need to know what’s going on. And you’re a people pleaser and you have a fear of confrontation and you don’t want to talk about your emotions. It feels uncomfortable. You don’t even have the vocabulary to name how you feel. How can you have that relationship if you’re not that like you’re not you’re not that person.

Yes.

Victoria Kleinsman (19:00.718)
Yeah, you just won’t attract it into your life.

No. So what you said about the relationships being a mirror is a hundred percent correct. And so what we’re doing is we’re not, you know, I’m not a magician to just create a guy for you, we change, we change who you are so that when, when that mirror comes up, it reflects something better than, you know, that toxicity that you were dealing with before.

Yes, powerful, I love that. I for some reason thought of our friend Michael. I was like, even being coached by Michael, you’re not a magician really? Are you sure?

Peace.

he is very powerful.

Victoria Kleinsman (19:39.182)
Michael will love that one. So how do people start then? Obviously, I love how you lay it down, looking at the history, I think that’s so important. And then, sounds so obvious, but so many people don’t know what they want. They know what they don’t want. But if you don’t know what you want, then how do you attract what you want into your life? So let’s say someone’s done the work with you, they’ve got all the lists, the foundational stuff. And then they’re like, shit, like you’ve just said, I would love a man to take the lead.

and for me to be in more of a surrender role, yet I’m a control freak and a perfectionist. So, I mean, it kind of is obvious, but how would you support someone with letting go of that type A control-y type behaviour in order to attract a man that they say they desire in that different energy?

No.

Okay.

Laura Nagiel (20:26.605)
I love that you said the word energy because that is definitely one of the keys here. But key number one is intention. so when you have that vision, so how it goes within my framework is that once we get clarity on all of that sort of prep work, then you go out there and date. And then in specific situations,

I want you to stop and ask yourself when you’re about to ask a guy out and then tell him where you’re going to go and when and what time and you’re just going to manage everything. I want you to stop and ask yourself, is this me allowing him to lead? Am I even creating a space for it? Is this me acting like the person in the new version of my relationship or am I still acting like that old version of me thinking like the old version of me?

Thank

Victoria Kleinsman (21:13.294)
Mm.

Victoria Kleinsman (21:24.905)
yes.

So that is the very foundation and everything, intention.

an awareness from what you’re saying, because if no one’s aware that they’re doing the old stuff, then they can’t change it then, can they, if they’re not aware of it?

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. it’s, it’s with this. So intuition is a very big part of my work as well. And when it comes to dating, it’s as much as everything about dating tends to be much more, tends to be maybe not much more, but more difficult when other areas of, of, of personal development, just because it’s so vulnerable. When it comes to turning intuition in, I feel like this is the part that’s actually easier because the frustrations are very obvious.

Laura Nagiel (22:11.317)
So if you’re talking to a guy and he’s not stepping up, he’s not asking you out, or you feel that a certain conversation is, is not coming up, but you want it to come up, for example, exclusivity. And so you are already preparing in your head how you’re going to start it. It’s easy for them, for you to know, okay, this is, this is my old programming because I’m about to take control. I either.

really want something to happen or don’t want something to happen. And I am not allowing it to flow. I’m again, trying to get into the driver’s seat. Right? So awareness, I feel like, of course, this is, this is a recurring topic. Like I keep bringing it up to my clients. Did you think of this? Like be mindful of that.

Hmm.

Mm.

Laura Nagiel (23:03.873)
But once you know that you have to be mindful in that process, it’s so much easier for your intuition to just switch on. And you’re like, OK, let me at least stop. I do end up doing the thing that is very clearly me using my old programming, it happens, of course, part of the process. But at least I know the next time I can do better.

Yes.

Victoria Kleinsman (23:30.358)
I love how you said the word programming because the way you just said it, part of my past or old programming, it gives you power over yourself because it’s just programming. It’s not who you are. It’s not your identity. You’re not stuck. It’s like, that’s my old conditioning and programming. Therefore, I’m going to reprogram myself with Laura’s help with something different, what I actually want. And it’s uncomfortable, obviously, because it is.

Yes.

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (23:57.057)
growth always is, but, but you know, that, that’s the thing. And I love that so much what you said about the programming, not being like programming, being programming and not us, because now we, now we get onto energy and that is such a big, big piece of work. And especially with clients who are perfectionists, who are people pleasers, who always want to get it right.

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (24:26.765)
Because they’re so driven, they’re so process oriented, strategy oriented, control oriented, it’s very difficult for them to be in their feminine energy, which is receptive, open, flowy, know, more slower. And so these women, including myself a few years ago, believe that this is just how they are and they have

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (24:54.827)
too strong of a personality to be that weak and what they’re very often looking for they say I have a strong personality I want a man who’s stronger than me and it’s not me it’s them everyone around me is just weak I want a guy who’s strong enough

It sounds like the past me. I remember when I first met Vauta in Egypt, and I remember we went to this weird club and everything, and I remember thinking, when the fuck is he gonna kiss me? Come on, can I make it any more obvious? And so I gave in and I actually said to him, when are you gonna kiss me? I actually said that to him, and the poor guy was trying to take it really slow and be really respectful, and I was like, oh my God, come on already. So that just reminded me of the past me, who like bulldozed the first.

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (25:41.067)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (25:47.828)
experience of intimacy because I wanted it and he was taking too long in my opinion.

Yeah, so that was you taking control, right? Like I want it, I’m gonna make it happen.

Yes, so I was full on masculine mode in that scenario. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. And I so relate to that because you know that quote like I want I’m a strong personality. I want a man who’s stronger than me. I would say that so many times. So now when my clients say it, I’m like, yeah, I got you. I know exactly what we need to do. But so yeah, so we believe that okay, I’m so strong. I just need a man who’s stronger than me. What?

me.

Laura Nagiel (26:30.949)
they don’t understand there is that relationships need polarity. And so if I’m strong masculine and I want my man to also be strong masculine, it doesn’t work like that because these magnets are just pushing each other away. And this is exactly why your dating life is not working out the way you want it to. Because if you’re strong and you’re masculine, you only attract men who are passive.

or leech off on you, in, a myriad of ways. So it might just be basically scenario that they’re just very passive and you’re the one putting it all to work and making it all happen and holding it all together. or worst case scenario, they’re super toxic. They feed off your energy because there’s just so much strength. There’s just so much, protective energy as well. And like,

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (27:30.359)
But I guess strength is what really attracts these energetic vampires because they just know there’s just so much to take because you’re so willing to give. so that’s the limitation they have in their perspective. then once we acknowledge that, then the question is, OK, but how do I get into my feminine energy? I don’t want to pretend.

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (27:59.373)
to be someone I’m not. I am definitely not shy. I am not quiet. I am, you know, I’m a hard worker and I, and I, all the things I achieved, I achieved my hard work. I don’t want to shrink myself or diminish my achievements. And that’s an absolutely valid point. But that’s also a common misconception about what feminine energy is.

Yeah, because you said the word in brackets, weak, and I think it’s worth mentioning because I’m sure so many of your clients, including the past version of me, would think that surrender and going with the flow was a weakness, but actually it’s a strength if you look at it from that perspective.

It’s such a strength. I honestly I still get goosebumps when like I talk about the moment you said like the feminine is strength I was like, yes, because it’s it’s a concept not Nowhere near enough like people like are fully aware of and understand it correctly and it genuinely changes lives because when you step into your Feminine energy as a woman this just gives you so much power

Feminine energy is creativity. is its fertility in all ways, not just the literal, you know, it’s it’s it’s ideas. It is creating creating you whatever it is, either, you know, new ways of living. It is making a home out of a house. It is creating good vibes. It’s creating good environment. You are the one who’s able to to be that person who’s magnetic and people just can’t help but

to be around and to be that person you don’t have to like so being in your feminine doesn’t mean being shy and coy and quiet. It means creating the second for most of us means creating a second mode a second gear we can shift into because our work let’s be honest most of the time the way society is set up in order to achieve success.

Laura Nagiel (30:06.849)
You do need to be in your masculine, especially when you work a corporate job, which most people do, especially in a male dominated field, you have to play the game. So you have to be very strict, very direct, very firm with people, persistent and all of these sort of hard, hard words. When I say them, you see, you see a rectangle, not something round, you know? But…

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That very thing that enables you to have that success is an obstacle when it comes to the dating life and to finding love and to finding that masculine man who will provide and protect and take care of you. And so what we want to do is create that second mode that is still you. It’s just an intentional way of being, an intentional way of expressing yourself. Because when you think about it,

you

Laura Nagiel (31:02.469)
you’re still you when you’re with your family or with your friends or with your clients, it’s still you, but you express yourself in different ways, right? So that’s exactly what we’re doing for dating as well.

Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (31:13.868)
Yeah, to attract the person you want. So what question do I have next then? So if someone’s a control freak, take type A, and they’re listening to this and they’re like, fuck, that’s me. I say I want this masculine man to take care of me and I’m just not creating space for that because I’m being that, so therefore I’m making it go away from me. How do they start to change that within themselves before the relationship

Mmm.

Laura Nagiel (31:27.328)
you

Laura Nagiel (31:35.978)
Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (31:43.274)
is being the mirror to them, or do you say get on the dating scene immediately and have the mirror and kind of change through the mirror, or is it kind of a bit of both?

a bit of both, definitely. So when they go out there and date, this is, we have case studies to analyze, meaning specific interactions. I can then show them exactly, okay, so this is where you took control. This is where you acted from your old programming, right? But that would take really long if we were just waiting for specific case studies to come up. And so

what they also do as a supplement or maybe supplements sort of diminish the value of it. But like as a second part to the process is we create something called feminine energy ritual. And it’s something that’s different for everybody because it’s basically it’s a set of things that allow you to

to remind yourself what your intention here is, where, who you’re becoming, who you are in when it comes to dating and that romantic sphere. so we are, and we’re also just obviously affirmations, things like that, journaling, but it’s the constant intention setting. I wanna be open to

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (33:17.877)
allowing somebody to lead. then I, and then I, part of the homework is, example, your task is not even to like attract something specific, but to just lean back. I don’t know why I’m pushing for it because it’s like lean back, and see what happens. That’s the very first step. So sitting with the discomfort of somebody else deciding whether something’s going to happen or not.

Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (33:46.285)
anyone.

So these case studies are super, super useful because, sometimes they will hold back and then we talk about it, but sometimes they don’t. And then we’re like, okay, why, why do you have to take control? Because my fear is he’s never going to ask me out. because my fear is this is going to fizzle out before it really, you know, before it even happens. And then that leads to another conversation, which is okay. So you feel like if you’re not the one putting in the effort.

He won’t, which means he doesn’t value as much. And don’t you think that if he doesn’t care to pursue you at the very initial stages, which is where he should care the most because you’re not committed to him yet, where do you think this is going to lead when you are in a relationship? And so we’re going back to the sort of self-worth, like what do I deserve? Do I love myself enough? Do I cherish myself enough?

Yes.

Laura Nagiel (34:46.881)
Do I think I’m worthy? Like where is my love for me? Because once your self love is at the sort of grounded stable level, that is your compass for not losing dating life. Then you’re like, if it doesn’t feel right with me, I wouldn’t do that to the person I love. I love myself so much and I respect myself so much. Why would I put up with it? You know?

Yes.

Victoria Kleinsman (35:15.588)
yes, okay, this is entwined with self-love and I want to bring it to women asking for their needs to be met and then kind read it to sex and intimacy and body image if that’s okay. I see, and I’m curious on your thoughts, the feminine asking for their desires and asking for their needs and like allowing, think the word allowing is such a big thing for us women and femmes, to not only…

This is a fun show.

Laura Nagiel (35:22.869)
Mmm.

Laura Nagiel (35:29.665)
Hmm.

Victoria Kleinsman (35:41.784)
ask for what we want from a place of desire, not like direct control, but I desire this, like I’m worthy of it, and then wait to receive and allow to receive. So can you talk about asking for our needs to be met in relationships, speaking up perhaps when it’s uncomfortable, and then also let’s bring it into intimacy and sex and body image as we go.

Yep.

Laura Nagiel (35:52.781)
Mm-hmm.

Laura Nagiel (36:06.221)
Okay, so like you said, in your feminine energy is not necessarily expressed as asking verbally, it’s very often inspiring. We can use words to inspire, but this doesn’t feel like a task because when you’re asking from the place of masculine energy, it’s like, it’s a direct message. I need you to do this, period, right?

Yes. Yes.

When you’re in your feminine, you inspire, you bring out certain behaviors or gifts or whatever. And when I say gift, I don’t mean material stuff, but like just in general offerings that you receive. like you say, enable people to take care of you or to give you or protect you. So when it comes to asking in a relationship or in dating,

My suggestion in terms of like in universal terms, definitely start with gratitude always, because since you want to be the one that’s receiving, the only way to activate and to, you know, be open for receiving is to be grateful for what you already have. Like gratitude multiplies. And so if you want to, if you want to…

Mm.

Victoria Kleinsman (37:26.535)
yeah. Yes.

Laura Nagiel (37:34.733)
Do you want to give me a specific example or do you want to make it up?

Yeah, so let’s say, because I’m trying not to elate it to a relationship that’s already long term going. I’m trying to think of, you know, a newly dating couple where you don’t quite know each other fully yet. Hmm. Let’s say that someone they’ve been dating a couple of times and the woman’s perhaps noticed that the man isn’t as forward thinking, isn’t as what word am I looking for?

Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (38:05.956)
isn’t as much leading as she would like, how can she say without directly saying, or maybe she does directly say, I would love for you to just lead more. It would turn me on. How would you initiate that conversation without being like, hey, listen up, I need you to lead because then I can relax, okay, cool.

Mm-hmm.

Laura Nagiel (38:20.951)
Hmm.

Laura Nagiel (38:28.365)
I’m gonna direct you to leave. This is my feminine energy, very soft and very, you know, discreet.

Yeah

Exactly.

Okay, so I would say going, like communicating that directly is not something you can do because that’s exactly the sort of comic effect you’re getting. You cannot directly ask somebody to lead. That’s just, it doesn’t make sense. But what you can do is when he does step up, even in a small way, this is how you start the conversation. So if he does plan a place where you’re going to meet, or if he does…

Hmm.

Laura Nagiel (39:10.763)
let’s say give you give you three options of where you can go, what you can do for that date. When you meet, you absolutely want to spend some time acknowledging that and being grateful for that. So and it’s not and it goes beyond just saying thank you for researching this. It’s you know, thank you for giving me these options. It made me feel held.

taken care of, it made me feel so feminine. It made me feel so good. I love it when you’re so strong and you’re masculine. I love to feel your leadership. It’s so sexy to me. It’s so hot. So that’s the angle through which you want to have these conversations. And by the way, that’s the angle you would apply to everything that you want to ask for in a relationship. And whether that’s big or small,

That’s exactly how you want to do it. Like if you want a man to give you flowers regularly because you like to have that type of beauty in your life

This is done through praise. You don’t tell him you need to buy me flowers every week, because then he feels that expectation, that demand almost. So what he does is he gets all defensive. He’s like, but why should I? What do you buy me every week? You know what I mean? It becomes that sort of hostile negotiation almost. Or at the very least, he feels like he got a task, like a chore to perform.

Mm.

Laura Nagiel (40:45.709)
whereas if he gets you these flowers and you’re like wow these are like

They’re so amazing and they enhance my space and whenever I see them, it reminds me of your love or affection if you’re not at the love stage yet, but it reminds me of you. It reminds me of the fact that you care and what we have and it just makes me so happy. If you lay out all these things, if you share all of these positive feelings that these flowers, which are not even expensive, give you, if he truly cares,

That’s a big if, but if he truly cares, he will keep doing that. He will keep doing that and more because you will keep reinforcing that leadership in him. So start small, keep praising and being grateful and explaining why that matters and how much it matters and the right person will respond.

Ooh, yes.

Yeah, and I just want to add that caveat here because sometimes I have women write to me who are already in relationships and they’re like, oh, but I tried, but he just, you know, it’s like talking to the wall, like he’s not responding. And I’m like, well, maybe he just doesn’t care anymore. And then it’s deeper than…

Laura Nagiel (42:02.977)
because the dynamic is already set in a certain way, right? Which is why I love that we’re approaching it from the angle of, you know, a new relationship because in your relationship, the dynamic is set from the get-go, you get a fresh start. So let’s stay in that territory because then I’m gonna go on a whole new tangent and we’re gonna be here for hours.

Okay, yeah, you start as you mean to go on. I love that because I’ve actually learned a lot from you from you just sharing because I’m a very loving but very direct person, especially with our daughter now who’s almost one. Sometimes I’m like, darling, I need this from you, this, this, this and this, please and thank you and I love you. So maybe I’m going to try it in. That’s such a great way of asking for what you want, but actually it’s kind of a win-win because

Mmm.

It’s really praising and being grateful for what he is doing and asking him to step up without actually asking him to step up. So I love that. And you said something key, even going back to like the beginning of relationship in dating, if the person cares enough, he will continue and change and evolve and give you what you desire. And if he doesn’t, then he’s not for you because he doesn’t care enough. And that’s okay too. And I bet a lot of women have fear that

what if he doesn’t care as much, take it personally and perhaps make all stories up about them not being good enough and maybe they need to lose weight and maybe they need to be younger. But that’s just stories that aren’t true just because someone perhaps isn’t good enough for us actually.

Laura Nagiel (43:31.403)
Yeah, 100%. And there are two things here. So one is that, like you said, that lack of self-esteem, just keeps coming up and up again, because instead of asking ourselves, like we just focus so much on does he like me? Is he gonna like vie for my attention? Is he gonna pursue me? We don’t even ask ourselves, do I like him enough to want to pursue this? You know?

Yes.

And, and so, so that’s one thing. And then the second thing, just to, just to sort of round up what we said about asking for things. Another, another angle you can approach it from is by not directly asking, I want you to do this, but sharing what would make you happy.

or something that you’re thinking about, something that inspires you. So if you want him to take you to this specific show, you can say that you’ve seen an ad, it looks amazing, it would make you so happy to get all dressed up and have a nice evening out at that specific place, wherever you want to go.

And again, the right person will pick up on it. Men are not stupid. So the right person, if you tell them, makes you happy or curious, you’ve never done it, and it’s something you’re really craving. And especially when you’ve expressed that gratitude before, he will keep chasing that feeling of…

Victoria Kleinsman (45:00.743)
Yeah.

Yeah, and then what I’m hearing you say is it’s then allowing the man space to take that and create that in his own way because you’ve gave him, you’ve stated your desire and then he gets to then decide for himself how, when, what, et cetera, over the new being like, on this exact day, I would love to go with this exact meal. And that’s obviously in a patronizing way of like trying to get what you want.

Mm-hmm.

Victoria Kleinsman (45:32.732)
without trying to be very discreet about it. And that’s still a forcing energy, isn’t it? Other than being like a genuine desire of yours and then letting go and leaving it to him if and so be it. It is what it is if not.

Yeah, a hundred percent. And there’s another point here. So if you want to be in your feminine, if you want to receive, if you want to have a man who does all these things for you, and that’s important, especially for the beginning, you cannot criticize him for doing things the way he does when you know he tried his best. Right. So if he…

Yes, important.

Laura Nagiel (46:11.371)
If he books a play and then, but he’s never really been an opera person or theater person, whatever. And he just doesn’t understand where the good seats are. And he just happens to book you crappy seats, not because he was cheap, but just because he didn’t know any better. You need to shut up and.

in.

Victoria Kleinsman (46:27.474)
Yeah.

still be grateful and still compliment him on, you know, on the effort he made, because he will sure acknowledge that he messed up, right? But then you’re like, no, what is important is that I’m here with you. What is important to me is that you are making my

dream, my want, my idea happen. And this means so much. This makes me so happy. You know, the seeds doesn’t, it doesn’t really matter. I’m here with you. You gifted me this experience. This is so like, this is so much better than good seeds on my own. And then next time, if you approach it like that, next time, I guarantee you he will get the best seeds. He can either find or afford, you know.

yes, I love this. Alright, so going into sex intimacy in the bedroom, looking for time, because we started late, are you good for like another 15 minutes? Awesome, thank you. Because I’ve had in the past many sexual experiences where I’ve not said anything, because I actually didn’t know how, like I haven’t even just learnt to be able to ask for my needs to be met.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Laura Nagiel (47:37.869)
Yeah.

where I’ve tried to angle my body and make it very obvious that what is happening is not good for me to the point where I’m like, how obvious can I make it? And the person’s just completely oblivious. So if someone is experiencing something with intimacy, how do they? Because I’ve also, and this will come in the future when my daughter’s a bit older, but in terms of sex, I’m into intimacy and time. How do you, I guess I’m asking personally as well, how do I ask for something?

huh.

Laura Nagiel (48:02.253)
Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (48:06.733)
Mm-hmm.

without sounding direct and making them wrong when doing something that’s obvious to me isn’t getting the message across. Do you know what I mean? That’s where I would feel like, what would you do then? Because I need to do something different, perhaps.

No.

Okay. So I guess like what I’m hearing are two questions actually. So one is how do I react when I don’t want something and then how do I introduce something new or whatever? How do I start that? And, this is something that we want to navigate very carefully because obviously like dating is vulnerable. Sex is

Yes.

Laura Nagiel (48:47.647)
million times more vulnerable. And so you definitely don’t want to just be like, okay, no, you’re doing it wrong. Just stop.

Laura Nagiel (48:58.429)
Exactly, exactly, exactly what happens. And so you want to approach it with, with love. meaning instead of maybe pushing them away or being like, stop, you can, you can either, you know, grab their face, kiss them, and then direct them, direct them directly with your hands. and, and change direction that way.

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (49:28.429)
and when it comes to exploring new things, because I think that’s, that’s another conversation that’s very difficult for people to have. Like, how do I tell someone, you know, I think it’s a bit boring. Let’s just, let’s just, let’s just do something new. one way is to buy a book or, there’s, there are actually these connection cards, which are like super, super nice. So you basically have a deck of cards with like.

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (49:57.015)
questions like prompts that you can talk about. And that gets the conversation started. If you don’t want to go for like a whole project, so buy a book, get the cards, you can ask them what they would like to, you know, if there’s anything new they would like to try, if there’s anything that’s not working for them or something that they would like to change, because by like, by you saying, I want to be the best lover I can for you.

Obviously, they want the same, but maybe they didn’t know how to ask or it just never crossed their minds because, you know, men tend to think they’re the best lovers ever. They were born that way. So flipping the script and being like, how can I improve is very often a good segue into then sharing the feedback both ways.

yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (50:45.864)
So I love how you said directing them lovingly with your physical touch of like without necessarily ruining the mood and being like no left a bit down a bit up a bit too hard too soft Yes Exactly what kind of doing it physically you could do that in like a very sexy sensual Way as well and then when he or she sees your response to the change Winner winner chicken dinner

Exactly. Exactly. Here’s the map. Here’s the map with the list of instructions.

Laura Nagiel (51:07.693)
100%.

Victoria Kleinsman (51:16.06)
I assume.

Yeah, yeah, and you see that that’s the thing like as much as So as much as women who come to me first they believe that Conversation is the basis of everything we need to just talk everything through I am absolutely not an opponent of conversations, right? But I think there are some things which can be over intellectualized and it actually

kills to the point where it kills connection, where it just becomes a negotiation.

Because they’re both in their heads, not in their bodies and their emotions, in their somatic experience, they’re just in their head.

Exactly, exactly. And then it becomes this whole process of thinking, not feeling. So, especially when it comes to sex, but even when it comes to dating, the way that spark and magic is created is not through me listing all of my features and benefits and you listing yours and us concluding that we’re compatible. It comes from the fact that we get to know each other. Certain things are unspoken and then you get to…

Laura Nagiel (52:24.853)
interpret that in your own way, right? That’s for dating. When it comes to sex, if you want to talk through and be very intellectual about it, when you then after that feedback session, when you then try and apply said feedback, you just get so much in your head. You’re like, OK, did she say like far, like, you know, like far left or just like a little bit left or like this intensity? Is that what she meant with, you know, it’s just it becomes so complicated unnecessarily.

Peace.

Laura Nagiel (52:54.783)
And so it’s so much better to, you said, use the language of love, of touch, also as women. And I think that really works for men. If you use like your reactions, your voice as well, not necessarily for speaking, like this really lets them know how well they’re doing, you know? So like, don’t be also afraid to express your pleasure, not just in a very verbal way. Okay, this is good.

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (53:22.593)
but also in like, you know, letting yourself go with your voice, with your body. That’s, that’s the best feedback.

Mm.

Victoria Kleinsman (53:31.302)
I love that. What about body image? So I know if someone is really embarrassed or ashamed of the way they look, I know that deeper work is necessary, especially in eating disorder recovery. I know there’s like deeper reasons for this, but in dating, let’s say someone’s felt brave enough to put a…

profile together on a dating site, I always encourage someone to put a real photo of their full body so then they’re not worried about someone meeting them and thinking they’re bigger than they are. So obviously being honest in the profile first, but how would someone navigate dating if they feel really uncomfortable and shy and embarrassed of their body without waiting to date until they’ve done the work to feel accepting? Like how would you support someone through that? I can imagine that’s

Yeah.

Victoria Kleinsman (54:19.976)
quite common.

Like you said, first of all, that’s common. it’s, and one thing I want all of the women listening to keep in mind is that you could look like a supermodel and still feel uncomfortable in your body and not wanting, like not wanting to be seen. you will, and you could still come across some jerk who’s going to tell you your mid, you know, it’s like,

It doesn’t matter how beautiful you are, if somebody wants to go after your looks, wants to hurt you in that way, because men know women are sensitive about their looks, they will. So don’t…

Can I just, I wanna share a really quick personal story with that. I was like 9 % body fat, like full on blown eating disorder, like not good but was, you know, six pack and all these things. And I was having sex with a guy and he literally said like, me on top, mid sex, oh you’re almost the leanest girl I’ve been with. And I was thinking, what the fuck? I didn’t know what to do, what to say. I mean it didn’t last long, the relationship. I was like, really?

Yeah.

Laura Nagiel (55:29.741)
Wow.

Yeah, just wanted to share that. So yeah, you’re right. And I was like, you know, fitness model material and someone still said that to me and I felt shamed of my body anyway. So yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, of course. And you know, like, I also experienced that and like you can see I don’t have problem with like having too much weight on me right now. And I will still have people go in the comments and tell me you’re too ugly to be giving advice to women on dating. You’re too fat to be online. And so it’s, but that’s because people know women are very sensitive about their looks. So

Mm.

Laura Nagiel (56:11.199)
it, wherever you are on your journey, don’t think that if you get to a certain place, it’s going to get better and then you will be ready. And then you will not have these insecurities because you will have these insecurities as long as you, as long as they’re in you, people will always try to put them like instill them. But if you’re immune to that, you can be free of it at any. Doesn’t matter how you look. So that’s one thing, right? and then.

yeah.

Laura Nagiel (56:40.947)
When it comes to putting yourself out there, confidently, the best thing, something that I always tell my clients is that if your body is the only thing that matters to that guy, like you said, you need to put out your pictures, like accurate pictures. So if somebody based on a few kilograms this or that way decides that you are not the person for them,

That’s great. That saved you so much time already because even if you are a supermodel weight now, you want to have kids. Even if you don’t want to have kids, metabolism slows down.

There are different illnesses that can touch you. So your body, there’s no guarantee your body is always gonna be as fit and healthy as it is right now. Even if you do everything in your power to keep it that way because we don’t control everything in life. And so if for that person the looks are so, so important that they will decide to reject you based on your body, they were never your person to begin with because then you would be signing up for a lifetime of stress.

what, like you can never relax, you know, in, in any situation in, in a social situations in health situations in, in, in any type of change, that’s always going to be your worry. So, so the only person that needs to be comfortable in your body is you, if your partner doesn’t accept it, they’re not your partner.

Mm.

Victoria Kleinsman (58:18.952)
So it’s like being your authentic self in all ways is the vetting system to reject and deflect those that aren’t your person anyway.

Mmm.

Laura Nagiel (58:29.729)
Yeah, 100%. And what I encourage my clients to think is that if a guy rejects you, be grateful because he literally freed up space for your husband to come through.

There you go. Boom.

You know, your dream man would never ridicule, like would never tell you you’re almost the leanest, you know, girl I’ve ever been with. Your dream man would never tell you, do you think you’re qualified enough to be talking about? Like he wouldn’t question you. He wouldn’t make you question yourself or your worth or feel bad about yourself. And so if he does that, even indirectly by just telling you things, but no thanks, you know, I only date up until a certain size.

So be it, like thank you very much. Thank you for saving my time.

Yes, and one last personal share before I ask how people can work with you. People would have on my list would have heard me say this time and time again, but it’s really powerful. I met Vauter when I was in the eating disorder, when I was like tiny, tiny, tiny. And when I met him, my God, you have the perfect body. You’re so perfect. No one’s perfect, but he would say those things to me. After recovery of an eating disorder, like, you three stone heavier, my God, you have the perfect body. You’re perfect, perfect, perfect. And I was like…

Victoria Kleinsman (59:45.894)
Can you help make sense of something for me? Because when I met you, you said I had the perfect body. Now you say I have the perfect body. I’m completely different in terms of size. So can you explain it because it doesn’t make sense? And he’s just sat there and he was like, it’s just you. It’s just your energy. It’s just your shape. It’s just, he said, I can’t describe it. It’s just your essence of who you are. That’s what makes your body attractive to me. So.

Thank

Laura Nagiel (01:00:10.06)
Yeah.

That’s just, you know, from personal experience, it’s not what your body looks like when you find the right person. It’s all of who you are, including your essence and your energy.

But this is exactly why this internal work is so important because you will never, it doesn’t matter how beautiful you are, you will be overlooked. This is why, you know, sometimes we look at other women who we assess to not be so good looking and we’re like, why does she always have so many men just like after her? She’s not that beautiful. She’s not that successful.

What is it about her? Well, that’s her energy. That’s because she loves herself unconditionally and people just cannot help but be magnetized towards it. So 100%.

Hell yes. Laura, how are you taking on clients? What type of work do you do with clients? Group one to one. How can people contact you? All the juicy things, please.

Laura Nagiel (01:01:06.861)
Sure. So I currently only work one-on-one. That’s because in order to achieve that transformation, I can proudly say because it’s something I’m super excited about, have only definitely in the UK, if not in the world program that guarantees results so that I can guarantee you’re going to find your guy within six months because

Like I said, there’s just a limited number of factors as to why we get stuck. And I found them all out. So anyway, so I only work one to one. It’s a six months span. I am taking on clients right now. So I will share a link with you, Victoria, to the page where you can read more about my framework. It’s called the Dream Framework. And if that resonates, there will be a button where you can apply.

Amazing. Thank you, Laura. And of course, I’ll pop your Instagram and all those things in the show notes. Well, thank you for today. I’ve learned some stuff and it’s always a pleasure to chat with you anyway. Thank you, Laura.

Thank you so much Victoria, it’s been so fun.

Yay! Alright listeners, any questions reach out to Laura. You know where she is? Lots of love!

Laura Nagiel (01:02:21.433)
Thank you.