Victoria Kleinsman (00:00.239)
you

Welcome back to the podcast as you can see if you’re watching the video and you can probably hear if you’re not watching the video I have my gorgeous dog in the background. I’m currently sat actually on the floor in Our wellness suite. We’re just almost back home from our travels. We’ve been traveling for two weeks and we actually traveled purposely to see my sister for her for her for her surprise 40th birthday party. my god her face when she saw me was

priceless, her reaction was just, check it out, I it on my Instagram. And this is the best lighting, and the bedroom and doors are through that way, where Koa, my daughter, and my husband are. Here where my dog has joined me, and we’ve got our own sauna over there.

massive jacuzzi ball back down there. So yeah, really nice, enjoying it. So anyway, I’m here to record my Q and A for my group. And as I have been doing recently, I’m going to turn this into a podcast episode as well, removing their names. So let me just bring the questions up.

Alright then, so first question is by the law. Please can you explain cognitive mental restraint? Physically I feel I’m giving myself full permission to eat, but I can’t get my head around the cognitive side. Can you explain what this restraint is so I can understand where I’m

Victoria Kleinsman (01:24.291)
with it. So just to iterate what Charlotte is asking there, because I always say this, if you’ve been following me for a while, will know. Restriction isn’t just physical. Restriction is mental and emotional as well. And restriction is anything that you’re doing physically, for example,

restricting your food, counting calories, denying yourself of any cravings and denying yourself of eating just because you want the pleasure of eating. It’s also physical, I’ve just said that. It’s also mental and emotional, meaning if you’re allowing yourself to eat but you’re judging yourself for it, let’s say you’re eating a pizza or chocolate and you’re thinking, okay, I’m allowing this but how can this be okay? I’m afraid of weight gain, my body’s gonna change or…

What about sugar? What about health? If you’re judging the shit out of yourself as you’re trying to enjoy physically allowing, but judging yourself for doing the thing and eating the thing, that’s mental restriction, emotional restriction, whichever.

would you want to use. There’s also impending restriction, fear of impending restriction, which is mental. That’s saying something to yourself like, okay, I’m allowing everything, but then tomorrow I hope, even saying tomorrow I hope that I don’t want it, or tomorrow I’m actually not gonna buy it, so therefore I won’t be able to eat it. So it’s not exactly the same as the traditional diet binge cycle of I’m dieting again tomorrow. It can be subtle, it can be like,

I really hope that if I keep eating and allowing this, I hope that next week or next month, then I will not want it anymore. So it can be subtle, anything that is showing signs of excitement or relief that you might…

Victoria Kleinsman (03:14.592)
eat the thing anymore, that’s actually a sign of restriction because true allowance is physical allowance, allowing yourself to eat anything you want whenever you want, and then you need to be working on the mental and emotional restriction and the impending restriction, and that is continuing physical allowance, obviously, always eating what you want when you want, no matter what.

And also, it’s okay to eat if you’re not hungry, if you just want the pleasure of eating. So in order to break through and be truly free, not just looking like you’re physically free around food, is to notice when and where.

judging yourself for what you’re eating and then ask what the fear is beneath that judgment. So let’s say it’s the fear of weight gain, which for most people it is. Some people it’s the fear of losing control that isn’t linked to weight gain. Those are the two most common ones. Well then what does it mean if you were to lose control? Then what? And then what? And the same with weight gain. Okay, if you were to gain weight, then what would happen?

and then if that happens, then what would happen? So you get to the root of your, the core of your true fear here, because it’s never about the food or the weight gain in the vacuum in and of itself. It’s always what that means or…

your fear of what will happen if that happens, if you’re still with me. So it’s always getting to the root of it all. And ultimately, it’s leaning into trust. Trusting that your body knows what it’s doing. my goodness, does your body know what it’s doing? Let’s just get out of the way. Trust that your desires, even pleasurable desires, even if you’re not hungry, is something your body’s not rejecting. It’s actually asking for because your mind and your body are not two separate things. It all works together with your nervous system, your emotional state, your mental state, your

Victoria Kleinsman (05:00.848)
physical state, it all works together. So if you’re wanting something and desiring something, then trust that, follow that, allow yourself to enjoy it, connect to your body, be grateful for your body, and just let go. I know it’s so easy to say, right? I did a whole episode called How the Fuck to Actually Surrender. But that’s what it is, just letting go and trusting that your body knows best. Look on your mental and emotional restriction by noticing when it’s happening, and you can

question it and then get to the root cause of the fear and then question that and then coach yourself through that. Talk to yourself with compassion and curiosity and love and patience and reassure yourself that actually this fear, although it feels true, isn’t true. My body knows what size it wants to be. My body wants to feel well and wants to be healthy and I would much rather live, this is what I told myself, I would much rather live in a bigger body and be completely free mentally, emotionally and physically.

than perhaps being a little bit of a smaller body and still be in the prison of constant food thoughts and all the things that I’m sure you are aware of. Is there anything else I want to add to that?

No, I think I’ve said everything I want to say with regards to that question. So recovery means aligning body and mind, not just the behaviour. So last thing on here, dieting and restriction is not an action, it’s a state of mind. And freedom isn’t an action, it’s a state of mind. So someone could look like they’re free around food physically and not be free at all within. And someone could look like they might be restricting, let’s say they say no to cake or they choose a salad, but can be completely

completely free on the inside because that’s what they genuinely want and have no shame or judgement around anything that they’re eating or not eating. So it’s a work in progress mentally and it’s all about getting to the root of the fear and then also facing the fears, we overcome fears by facing them.

Victoria Kleinsman (07:01.486)
Okay, so then the lovely, are you better off exercising even if you don’t feel like it instead of resting if you know it’s going to prevent purging behaviours and make you feel better? So obviously what Sue is saying here is, um…

Is it better to exercise because when she exercises then she won’t purge later? Well actually the answer is no because exercising is actually a form, especially in the way you’re asking it, is a form of compensation. It’s basically like a purge. So I was bulimic through purging through exercise and laxatives and we don’t need to get into the the integrates of the labels here, but purging is any form of severe compensation

for what you have eaten or what you might eat. So actually the exercise is a purging behaviour, especially coming from you, because I know you. So no it’s not, even though there can be a positive in there because if it’s stopping you from actually physically inducing vomiting.

it can be more positive, but at the same time, it’s just an eating disorder behaviour. So anything that is an eating disorder behaviour, if you keep doing that, you’re actually ingraining and welcoming and encouraging and making the eating disorder behaviour and mindset bigger by doing that, even though it might seem like it’s a step in the right direction. I’m not saying it can’t be, but ideally, you completely cut out any kind of compensatory purging behaviours and sit with…

the uncomfortable feelings, knowing that you can tolerate the feeling and you will not act on it. And also, resting is the bravest and most freest choice in recovery and it won’t feel nice. But the point is you face the fear of not compensating through exercise or purging and you be with that and you can journal or distract yourself even with a self-loving.

Victoria Kleinsman (09:01.85)
behaviour instead of a self-harming behaviour, even though the exercise might seem like a self-loving behaviour, it’s actually not because it’s still compensating for what you’re going to eat or what you have eaten. Can you see? So, no, don’t exercise because your body’s also, you also said even if you don’t feel like it, that’s, no. Listen to your body. If you don’t want to exercise, do not exercise. Sit in the sock, feel the feelings, don’t act on them, because otherwise you’re just going to be solidifying.

and making the eating disorder stronger and that’s not what you want obviously. Okay, I don’t understand what you mean when you talk about regulating your emotions could you expand with a practical example? Yeah so when you when I say regulate your emotions it means

not becoming and collapsing into your emotions. So let’s say you have the overwhelming feeling of panic or shame. That’s not a nice experience, but what we often do, especially if we’re very sensitive in eating disorder, an eating disorder recovery, we’re so afraid of our emotions, we’re so afraid to feel our emotions, we do everything we can to avoid doing that. So we restrict because that’s a self-harming way, but it’s a great way to just deny and…

suppress ourselves and our feelings. So regulating your emotions, as I was saying, is having an emotion, allowing it to be there, which then you’re then feeling the emotion, you’re allowing space for it to be there, you’re feeling the sensation, which may be good or bad, whatever words you want to use, you’re feeling the sensation of the emotion, you’re not pushing it away, you’re not suppressing it, you may be moving it through your body through movement or journaling or breathing or whatever it is you intuitively feel like you want to do.

and it’s not collapsing into.

Victoria Kleinsman (10:52.714)
the emotion because you are not the emotion and you are not your feelings. You have emotions that you get to feel if you want to. There’s a difference. So when you practice being the observer of your emotions, which you get to feel if you want to, instead of being your emotions because you’re not, you can’t be your emotion if you can witness them. For example, if I look at my dog, I can’t be my dog because I can see him objectively. So if you can

experience objectively, even though it’s an internal experience, you can feel it physically, you are not the emotion because you’re watching, you’re observing, you’re experiencing the emotion, you’re the experiencer. So you can’t be the shame or the panic if you’re experiencing it. You see what I’m saying? So when I say regulate your emotions, it’s being with your emotions, not allowing your emotions to become you because you are not them.

and it’s grounding yourself. This actually comes into your second question. I also don’t really understand vagus nerve and polyvagal theory. What is it and how does it apply to eating disorders? It’s a term of, it’s a way of just bringing yourself out of fight, flight or freeze. It’s bringing your body back into rest and digest and you do that. If your out-breath is longer than your in-breath, you automatically trigger the vagus nerve, which brings your body out of fight, flight or freeze.

that simple. There’s other things you can do like by pulling on your ears and like different kind of tapping and like looking to the left, looking to the right. The workout which has some great polyvagal and vagus nerve relaxation techniques is just bringing your body back into relaxation from a panic.

into just a grounded neutrality safe feeling. And that’s what you do when you’re feeling, when you’re allowing your emotions to be felt, you’re bringing yourself right, okay, I’m grounded, I’m here, the sky is blue with clouds, I can see green trees, I can see a bath behind me, like.

Victoria Kleinsman (13:01.078)
I have hair, like just bringing yourself into the present moment. I am not in danger in this moment. I’m having a big emotion that I’m afraid to feel, but I’m gonna just breathe and create space for it. And my out-breath’s gonna be longer than my in-breath. And so you’re regulating your emotions at the same time as you’re bringing yourself back from panic, which most of us are in chronic fight, flight, or freeze. And then it can feel unsafe, ironically, to be in rest and digest. That’s a whole other podcast.

But yeah, I hope that’s answered your questions. I don’t know if you had another question. yeah, one other question you had. You often talk about mirrors and how we reflect back to the world. I think I’m halfway there in understanding, but could you explain it more fully so I might have an aha moment? So when I say things like everything is a mirror, the world is a mirror, as within, so without, as above, so below, and all these things, and what I mean by that is the way you experience the world,

You experienced the world through.

the lenses of your conditioning, of your beliefs, of your life experiences, of your values, you see the world through the lenses of you. Well, not you, because you are not your conditioning or beliefs or life experiences. But what all those things, conditions, beliefs, life experiences, you see the world that way. the world mirrors back to you what your beliefs are. The world mirrors back to you what you value or don’t value, because as human beings, we have to be in

In to something, in relationship to others, that’s how we get to know ourselves. In relationship to the world, that’s how we get to know ourselves. So everything is a mirror, meaning everything is showing you who you are, depending on how you respond. So let’s take it simple. If someone’s in a car and someone pulls out in front of this person and this person is so angry and pissed off and they’re having this trigger moment of like beeping their horn and swearing and all the things, that experience, that reaction,

Victoria Kleinsman (15:01.2)
of that person, that experience is mirroring back to this person what’s going on inside of them because they’re having a triggering moment from someone pulling out in front of them. Whereas if someone pulled out in front of me, I would react for safety in the car and then I’ll be like, that’s annoying and then I’ll just let it go.

just because I’ve done the work of regulating my emotions, not making it mean anything. When I’m triggered, I’m like, I’m interested. Why am I triggered? Let me get curious as to what my trigger is. And you just delve into all of that. So I know that sounded a bit more complicated. I’m just reading your question again. Yeah, about the, is there anything else I can add?

And then in terms of relationships, it’s all about triggers and how you see something. So if you are fatphobic or if you’re afraid of fatness.

seeing someone who is quote unquote fat, whatever that means to you, it triggers an emotional reaction within you, that’s a mirror, because you’re looking, you are experiencing your life through the perception of who and what you think you are. This is quite a deep question actually. So if you had been born by the same parents but grew up here in India, you would have a different view, beliefs, and values in the world because of how you’ve been conditioned and things like that. So if you want to change your beliefs,

If you want to change how you’re triggered, if you want to change how you feel about all the people, the world, you have to change yourself first. So if you go to a mirror and you want the mirror to smile, you don’t draw a smile on the mirror with a marker pen, do you? You simply smile and then in the mirror there is a reflection of you smiling. Do you get it? It’s actually quite a deep question to answer. Let me know if you have any more questions around that.

Victoria Kleinsman (16:52.928)
Okay, so then how do you navigate seeing people again when you’re at least three dress sizes bigger? I’m embarrassed they’ll think I’ve let myself go or that I’m greedy or that I’ve eaten too much. They might think those things and they might not.

I mean, hopefully if they’re thinking those things, they won’t say those things. And if they do, then that says a lot about them than about you. But I understand the fear completely. So the first thing to say is, I’ve already said it, is to be blunt and be like, well, they might think those things. But going back to actually what I was answering with the previous question, what you’re thinking is you’re thinking that other people…

will see you and think what you think about yourself. You think that other people will think the same about you that you think about you. You with me? But that’s not the case. These people are seeing you through their lens of the world, through their lens of conditioning past experiences, values and beliefs. So some people may think those things and some people might not think those things. And either way, there’s nothing you can do about it. So you can protect yourself by just reminding you that welcome to planet earth, people

judge people, it has nothing to do with you, it’s just to do with their beliefs and values and things like that. And then also if it helps, there’s actually a podcast I did, I can’t remember what the title was, it was literally answering in depth this question, like how to face loved ones when you’ve gained weight, I think that was the title. So definitely go and listen to that, it’s something like how to face loved ones after weight gain.

You can speak to these people if it makes you feel a bit safer beforehand. You can message them or voice message them or email them or call them and say, actually, I’ve gained a lot of weight and I’m just really afraid of what you’re gonna say about it, so I just want to put it out there first. mean, you can do that if that makes you feel better. So write down, if you get clear on the highest, best version of you, the most freest, self-loving version of you, how would she respond before and during?

Victoria Kleinsman (18:53.154)
this experience of seeing family since you’ve gained weight. So you can learn from this version of you and it may be that you speak to them before, it may be that you just act as completely the confident free version of you and not say anything. It may be that you have a backup of what to say if they do say, my goodness, you’ve gained weight. It might be something like, yeah, isn’t that great? I’ve healed from an eating disorder and this is a side effect. Or yeah, I’ve gained weight but I’ve also gained freedom and like zero fucks given now.

about my obsession I had with my body and food. So, and it’s also being kind to yourself, being patient, so much self-love and so much compassion, and speak to little you and see what she needs. Just a lot of gentleness and love as you approach this situation.

and my therapist thinks I might be on the ADHD spectrum, I don’t agree, but if I was, how would that affect recovery? In your call, when you asked if there was no fear of weight gain, how would you act? I still felt overwhelmed with meal prep, structured eating, and food choices, what’s wrong with me? There’s nothing wrong with you at all, my love. And whether you have ADHD or whether you don’t, I’m not a fan of labels, to be honest. Sometimes labels can be validating to…

some people and that’s okay but either way it doesn’t matter because you are a unique individual there’s nothing wrong with you with you if you feel overwhelmed by meal prep or structured eating and food choices I mean ideally in food freedom you don’t meal prep I mean sometimes you have to if you work obviously there’s that like

tangible, realistic aspect of food prep, but not food prep as in like the dieting restricting food prep, just food prep. example, I I work from home, so we cook at night when my husband cooks and then we cook double and then we just have for lunch the next day what we had last night. So that’s our meal prep done because we can’t be asked to do anything different and we just have an easy breakfast that can just be eaten, you know, at home or whatever. So what does meal prep mean to you? You don’t have to

Victoria Kleinsman (21:02.704)
Structured eat I mean, I think obviously I’ve said to you ideally of course you have breakfast lunch dinner and snacks and desserts in between But then my question to you is why does that feel overwhelming the structured eating?

Is it the actual structure or is it to do with the fear of weight gain? But you said, you you don’t have fear of weight gain, so it probably isn’t that. And you say you struggle with food choices. Why do you think that is? Just get curious. There’s nothing wrong with you. And then, I mean, I need you on a coaching call really to answer these questions, but get curious about your answers and be compassionate with yourself.

There’s no right way to recover and it’s okay if you’re on the ADHD spectrum or if you’re not. But either way, it doesn’t mean anything different for your recovery because you are the expert of your own experience. So you work with yourself. I obviously will work with you as an individual, not just a meal plan sheet or as a number of a client. And we do what works best for you. So what I would advise you to do, if you get clear, if you can on what.

you are afraid of or why it’s overwhelming for you and get to the root of that and then brainstorm of how you can support yourself with these things. There’s nothing wrong with you. be ADHD or not, it doesn’t matter. You can absolutely recover. means nothing about your recovery. Just be kind and gentle with yourself, okay?

Okay, and the last question I have, when I was deep in the eating disorder, I fainted often from not eating and carried, from not eating, she fainted often from not eating and carried snacks just in case, which is a good idea. Now in pre-menopause, I sometimes get dizzy again and I’m terrified of fainting in public. Not the fainting itself, but being seen fainting. It triggers shame from the eating disorder days. Is this common? How can I navigate it?

Victoria Kleinsman (22:59.168)
Well, first of all, it’s I mean, I think anyone would feel a bit weird about fainting in public Whether it’s the fainting itself or whether I mean ideally if if you were coming out from a place of full self-love you would be concerned about yourself and your safety if you’re fainting in public and But if it’s the fear like you said of someone seeing you the shame of someone seeing you faint right then what is the

shame around that? What is it that if someone were to watch you or to see you faint, what is it about someone seeing that that feels so unsafe to you? Is it the feeling that you’re not in control of it and someone’s seeing you perhaps out of control? Is it someone seeing you vulnerable?

Like what is it exactly about if someone were to see you fainting, what would it be that would not be okay and not be safe for you? You asked if it was common. I won’t say it was common. I mean, it’s not uncommon, but it’s not common common, but that doesn’t matter. And the way you can navigate it is to first and foremost get clear as to what the actual unsafe, shameful part of someone seeing you faint is.

and what that means about you. So that’s get to the root of it. And then also navigating it, maybe write a letter to yourself from your highest self. Or actually I know you a little bit, get your dog to write you a letter. Reassuring you.

that if you were to faint in public and people were to see you faint, it would be okay because all the reasons why it would be okay. And let me know how that exercise goes. And let me just see if there’s anything else I want to add to that. I mean, I think you said you…

Victoria Kleinsman (25:07.402)
in the question, there’s nothing you had, had, my goodness, I can’t speak. You had everything checked by the doctor and there was nothing like that they could see that was going wrong. It might just be hormone imbalances and stuff. So I was gonna say like making sure you’re nourished and hydrated and well rested and things like that. So yeah, I think there’s nothing else to add apart from get clear as to what the shameful part would be, the panic, the fear, and get your beautiful dog, obviously not to actually write, but to channel her.

I she was a she. And for your dog to write you a letter of reassurance as to why. And then as I say, if you can come to a coaching call and I will coach you through the depth of the what is the actual shameful, fearful part if you were to do that. Okay, so I hope these have helped. We have no more questions. So that’s it. Loving you all very much.

and have a beautiful rest of your day, morning, evening, whatever you’re doing when you listen to this. And next time I will be not in a wellness suite on the floor. Much love.