Victoria Kleinsman (00:01.474)
Hello my loves, welcome to another episode. Ignore the background, it’s kind of half as it normally is, but as you can probably see if you’re watching the video version of this, we have our sofas and chairs from inside in the office, which is in the garden. So that’s why there’s stacked up sofas and chairs behind me and there’s nowhere else for me to go to be honest. So it is what it is. Let me just check my audio actually because sometimes.

Let me turn you all the way up. think that’s better. Why am I also on Zoom? Sorry, I’m just like doing all sorts of things on here when I’m in the middle of recording. Okay then, let’s get into this juicy episode. So I put a question box on Instagram and I had great podcast episode, juicy topics. So I brought some of them into this so I can answer them here. And there’s definitely one in particular.

which I’m going to be recording in a couple of weeks and releasing as a solo pod. And that is a podcast about pleasure and why it’s non-negotiable in eating disorder recovery and in life. So thank you, Connie, for that recommendation. And I’ve also got a few questions that some lovely ladies submitted from the podcast form. In fact, before I go ahead and answer those, let me just double check that they were okay with me reading their name out.

no, this person would like to be anonymous and this person doesn’t mind. I’m just gonna keep both of them anonymous as I continue. So right, let’s dive in, enough waffling. The first question, how to know if I should eat intuitively or continue following the meal plan? And in answer to this question, I actually have some questions, typical Victoria style. My question to you is, if you stopped,

following the meal plan, would you trust yourself to eat fully unrestrictedly? If the answer is no, you wouldn’t trust yourself to eat completely unrestrictedly, then we need to start looking at how that meal plan is supporting you versus what would it take for you to eat unrestrictedly? Because here’s the thing, meal plans can be, I don’t use them unless necessary. I do provide them if absolutely necessary because for some,

Victoria Kleinsman (02:27.36)
it’s necessary to have a meal plan in order for them to actually eat enough and then we sort of break away from that and then eat intuitively and eat with freedom, which is the goal, right? So it is necessary and helpful for some, but if you don’t trust yourself or I guess a better question is, are you willing to follow your mental and physical hunger and eat completely unrestrictedly without a meal plan? If not, why not?

My second question I wrote down to ask you is, are you weight restored? You know when you’re weight restored when you have stopped gaining weight for about six months or so and you’re eating completely unrestrictedly, which it doesn’t sound like you are because you’re following a meal plan. So if you’re weight restored, you will know about it. It doesn’t mean you can’t eat with freedom if you are not weight restored. In fact, it’s better to do that than follow a meal plan. But it depends on whether if you don’t have the meal plan,

you’re gonna eat less and you’re gonna restrict. And if you’re not willing to eat unrestrictedly, then the meal plan is that stepping stone for you. The next question I have, do you know when your body is asking for food? Do you know when you’re hungry? So again, it’s practicing connecting to your body, not thinking or understanding that hunger is when you’re literally growling, your stomach is growling and you’re starving.

That’s when you’re too far gone. So get to know your body, the little subtle signs that you’re hungry and then eat from that, whether the meal plan says you can or not. Does the meal plan feel restrictive? Because if it does, get off it and eat unrestrictedly. The goal is to eat with complete intuition and freedom. So those are a few questions to get you started. And I guess from what I’ve already shared, you will know.

whether it’s better for you to stay on the meal plan or whether for you to be like, know what, fuck this, I’m eating fully unrestrictedly and really claiming the freedom that is waiting for me. Second question, how long will it take for my bloated belly to not look pregnant? Well, I know this feels unbearable. The truth is it’s typically, I mean, everyone’s different, but I’m gonna give you some kind of ballpark answer. The answer’s around six to 12 months. Yes, I’m sorry.

Victoria Kleinsman (04:45.408)
of consistent unrestricted eating before the bloating fully resolves. Sometimes longer, sometimes less time, it all depends. The reason it can take so long is because your digestive system has been screwed over by restriction. Your gut, your digestive system, the enzymes that are needed to digest certain foods, it’s slow, your stomach has shrunk.

for a start as well. Your intestines aren’t moving through food efficiently and fastly. Your body is healing its internal organs and it will do all that before it worries about how you look externally. Your body’s not even worried about bloating, it’s just doing its thing. And when you eat more and your metabolism is fired up again and food moves through you at the rate that it’s supposed to, prior to restriction, all the digestive discomfort will go away.

So bloating is actually a good sign because it means that your body’s getting at least enough food or almost enough or at least more than you have been giving it to digest. It’s getting more food. Your digestive system is relearning how to function. Internal healing is happening with the bloating. And I know that it doesn’t make it easier when you can’t do up your genes or you genuinely look pregnant and you’re not.

but trying to fix it by restricting or cutting out food groups or eating smaller meals or deciding you’re gonna get an allergy test and then noticing that you’re all of a sudden allergic to egg and wheat and blah, blah, blah bollocks. Don’t get an allergy test done at all. Please don’t, not in this stage at all. But what I want you to do is keep eating unrestrictedly. I know, I know, but it’s still a number one thing to do.

Gentle movement if it feels good. So walking, stretching, not to burn calories, but to support digestion and only do those gentle movement like walking and stretching and maybe some only on the mat, on the floor yoga. I do a lot of yoga where there’s no standing poses. It’s all on the floor and deep stretches. my God, it’s so nourishing. Don’t wear tight clothes that dig in. Get comfortable clothes that fit. Probiotics might help.

Victoria Kleinsman (07:01.934)
But honestly, the research is mixed, so why not? Probiotics are always a beneficial to take anyway. I always take them three times a week. You keep them in the fridge and you just, there’s all sorts of brands out there. I just get a brand that you trust. And the last thing is time. Fucking time. The bloating will resolve when your body is healed enough to trust that the food is always coming. You cannot rush this process. I know it’s really hard.

And you do get used to it. I promise you that. Like it’s exposure therapy. It’s supporting yourself through discomfort. It’s being like, well, just going to look pregnant for about a year. So may as well get on with it because a year of this discomfort for however many years left of your incredible, great, valuable life that you have been given is worth it for like a year of bloating and discomfort. I know it seems like so long, but when you submit to it, that’s the wrong word. When you

tolerate it, embrace it, no, tolerate, accept, embrace, that year will be a lot easier. And it might even be less, you know, but give yourself a year for worst case scenario. And please hear this, that the bloating is temporary, the restriction and the eating disorder is not temporary unless you heal, which is what you’re doing so well fucking done. The eating disorder will steal your entire life if you let it, but the bloating is temporary. So stay with it, keep allowing.

Alright, next question. How do I convince myself to eat when I’m not hungry? You don’t convince yourself, you just fucking eat anyway. You decide to eat. There is no convincing because when you’re convincing, you’re going back and forth in your head like, mm, with maybe I shouldn’t because blah, blah, blah, bullshit story, keeping you stuck. Nope, no convincing, it is a decision. And I know that sounds harsh, I get it, but that’s the reality.

If you’re in eating disorder recovery, which you are, and you’re not hungry, that’s not your body talking, that’s your eating disorder or the fear talking, or perhaps you’re just so disconnected to your body, and perhaps you generally aren’t hungry. But the thing is, your hunger signals have stopped communicating with you. This is the key, very often in early recovery. They’ve been suppressed by restriction for so long, your body’s just stopped giving you those signals because it costs the body energy

Victoria Kleinsman (09:31.362)
to send you hunger signals. And if you never respond to them appropriately, it’s gonna focus on, especially if you’re very malnourished and underweight for you, it’s gonna focus on the most important things like keeping your heart beating and your organs warm and all that kind of stuff. you want to honour, yes, honour how your body feels, but eat anyway. So you eat when you’re hungry because number one, you fucking decide to, because you wanna recover and be free, right?

And then your body needs fuel, whether it’s asking for it or not. And I want to reframe what I’ve just said because your body needs fuel whether you know that your body is asking for it or not, because the body always is asking for it because it needs it to thrive and to survive. You eat because waiting for true hunger, like the belly growling situation I mentioned earlier, it’s just, again, a form of restriction going too long before eating.

Your metabolism needs constant fuel to heal your body. You can’t restore hunger signals without eating regularly first. And that’s a big one. So when I was coaching the lovely Julia Trehean, I’m sure many of you will know her, she was not hungry at all for months when I was supporting her. I say months, we actually was working together for four months. She fully recovered in four months. She just went all in. So I would say about two months she wasn’t hungry at all. It was mechanical eating.

She got no pleasure from food, but she was eating anyway. And then now, years ago, her metabolism got back online, her body was able to connect and communicate with her, and she was able to understand, my God, I’m hungry. And my God, this food tastes nice, but only because she showed the fuck up and ate anyway. So you can’t restore hunger signals, like I said, without eating regularly and consistently first. So what you need to do instead of trying to convince yourself is,

Eat every three to four hours regardless of hunger and say out loud, I am eating because my body needs this, not because I feel like it. Eat anyway, mechanically eating is like taking medicine. I remember when I was in anorexia recovery and I had no appetite, food was a threat. just had, I couldn’t even really taste the food. All food just tasted of like nothing. So I was literally having to like put it in my mouth, chew, swallow.

Victoria Kleinsman (11:54.728)
over and over again. I got no pleasure. It was torture. It was horrible, but I did it. And look at me now. I love food. It brings me so much pleasure and excitement. So trust that the hunger signals will come back eventually. I promise you they will. You cannot break your metabolism, but only if you keep eating consistently. Recovery isn’t about eating when you feel like it. It’s about eating, especially when you don’t feel like it, because that’s how you prove to your body

that food is always coming. So act as if you deserve nourishment even when your body isn’t asking for it yet. That’s the work. A good thing to go with to end the answer to this question is if you were in charge or taking care of a young child, let’s say a six, seven, eight year old child and you were responsible for them for a week, would you only offer them food when you’re offering yourself food or would you be like,

hey, it’s kind of breakfast time, what do you want for breakfast? Have this. And then kind of snack in between lunchtime. Like you would be offering them nourishment to support them, because you would care for them and be responsible for them. Do that for yourself. That was easiest for me to do, to like put it away from me onto someone young who was dependent and who I loved. Or just an imaginary little you when you were younger. So try that. Okay, so this.

Next one is going to be a more juicy answer because this question came in through the podcast form, which you can find on my Instagram story highlights. So yeah, you’ve got to go and do some work and go to my Instagram and follow me. You don’t have to follow me, but follow me if you want to. And the Instagram highlight, you can access this form. And it’s also at the end of every email I send out. So if you’re not on my email list, get your ass on there. So she doesn’t want to be…

She doesn’t want me to share her name, so I’m not going to. So she’s just saying, the question was longer than this, but I’ve shortened it for this podcast. OCD with a binge eating disorder, can this be overcome or is it just other eating disorders? My head is circulating, no wait, yeah. My head is circulating ritual OCD with food. If I don’t eat a certain amount, terrible things will happen. Well, in my ret-a-thorical,

Victoria Kleinsman (14:18.914)
That’s not a word, whatever. In my head it will. I know it’s unfounded and ridiculous, but I live in constant fear. So my love, the short answer is yes, you can absolutely overcome binge eating disorder when you also have OCD. They’re not mutually exclusive conditions, and the beautiful thing is that the healing work actually addresses both at the root level. So here’s what’s happening. Your OCD is latching onto food and eating.

because that’s where your nervous system feels most out of control. The rituals around food, for example, quote, if I don’t eat X amount, something terrible will happen, end quote, are your brain’s attempt to create safety in a system, your nervous system, that feels fundamentally unsafe. And the binge eating, that likely started from restriction.

whether physical restriction, emotional restriction or mental restriction of trying to control the OCD thoughts. You still with me? The reason traditional therapy hasn’t worked is because they’ve been trying to treat these as separate issues or treating the depression, because she said more in her question, they’re treating the depression as the problem.

when actually the depression is a symptom of living with untreated OCD and an eating disorder, right? They’re getting it backward. You need trauma-based nervous system work that addresses the root cause, which is why you develop these coping mechanisms in the first place. At 68, you are not too old for this work, my love. I promise you that. I’ve helped clients older than you who have come to me.

who are fully recovered and all they’ve said is, fuck, I wish I’d done this sooner, but they’re just so grateful and free for the life that they’ve got left to live in freedom. Your soul is calling for freedom and being too scared to let go, which is what you said in the question somewhere, is exactly where we start. The fear is information. We work with the fear, not against it. Recovery will involve nervous system regulation,

Victoria Kleinsman (16:37.43)
somatic work to help your body feel safe enough to release the need for rituals and addressing whatever childhood experiences taught you that you needed this level of control to survive. The eating piece does follow naturally once we address the underlying trauma and nervous system dysregulation. You’re a survivor who developed brilliant coping mechanisms that are now ready to be retired.

So I’m gonna give you some practical steps to start today. So, number one, nervous system regulation practise. This is just one practise that you can do. When the OCD thought comes in and it says, quote, if I don’t eat X, something terrible will happen, end quote. Instead of immediately acting on it, I want you to, or fighting it, because resistance creates more suffering, whatever you resist persists, I want you to take a pause and do this.

Place both hands on your heart, take three slow breaths, making the exhale longer than the inhale, if that feels safe in your body to do so, without forcing it, and say out loud these things. It’s not that something will happen that’s terrible if I don’t eat X amount. It’s that I have a thought that something terrible will happen, or…

It’s not that something terrible will happen, it’s that I have a belief that something terrible will happen. That’s separating yourself from the thought and the belief that feels so true. It’s not true, it just feels like it’s true. And then say out loud, you’re trying to keep me safe, but we’re actually safe right now. I do not have to act on this thought and feeling, I can tolerate it. Okay, this isn’t about making the thought go away, it’s about showing and teaching your nervous system

that you can have the thought without immediately needing to complete the ritual. A second thing you can do, and this will need to be practised as the first one over and over, is to externalise the OCD voice. So give your OCD a name, something that helps you see it as separate from your soul self. When the food ritual thought comes, practise saying, that’s OCD name, that’s Gertrude.

Victoria Kleinsman (18:58.53)
talking, not me. You already know intellectually that it’s ridiculous, in your quotes, but your nervous system doesn’t actually know that yet. This practice helps create space between you and the compulsion. And number three, one of my favourite parts, is do tiny acts of rebellion. So what I mean by that is don’t try to eliminate the rituals completely yet, because that will send your nervous system into panic. Instead,

practice tiny modifications. If the ritual says eat exactly 10 biscuits, I want you to eat nine biscuits or 11 biscuits. If the OCD, obsession, voice, fear voice says you need to eat these biscuits in a specific order, switch one. Do it in a different order, just one. If it says you need to finish by a certain time, go two minutes over or two minutes under.

The goal here is to prove to your nervous system that breaking the rule doesn’t exactly result in catastrophe. So start small, even though it feels ridiculous. Start so small it feels ridiculous. That’s how you can really progress with this. And number four, separate the binge from the OCD. They are connected, but they’re different. So what I mean by this is the OCD ritual might trigger a binge.

But the binge itself is likely your body’s response to restriction. So notice, are you physically hungry? Are you mentally hungry when the ritual starts? Or is it just a pure compulsion from the OCD? Because if you’re restricting between binges, even unintentionally, due to the OCD rituals dictating when and what you eat, I’m not saying this might be unintentional.

your body will drive binges as a survival response. You might need to start eating regularly throughout the day. You will need, not might need, you will need, if you’re not already, to start eating regularly throughout the day. Even if you’re not hungry, like as I was mentioning when I was answering your previous question, even if you’re not hungry, start eating more regularly. Always eat completely unrestricted to your mental and physical hunger.

Victoria Kleinsman (21:19.618)
and that will stabilise the safety feeling within your body that there is always going to be enough food and then the binges will reduce over time. And then number five, journal prompts here for you for some root cause work. So get a pen and paper, old school, not on the computer or your phone and grab your journal and answer this question. What was happening in my life when I was 12? Because in the form you mentioned something about you being 12.

What was happening in my life when I was 12 that made my nervous system decide it needed this level of control to feel safe. You don’t need to solve it, just get curious. OCD at 12 tells me something significant was happening in your life, either in your external world or in your internal emotional world. Understanding the why helps you have compassion for these parts of you rather than battling them.

So the reality check, my love, you’ve lived with this for 56 years, okay? It’s going to take more than a few exercises to fully heal it. But these practices will start to shift things. They’ll show your nervous system that there is another way, and they’ll build your capacity to tolerate the discomfort of not completing the ritual. And the torment that you’re describing, that’s not permanent. That’s your soul self screaming at you to be free.

from a suppressed self that’s been running the show for decades. You can do this and you deserve to do this. And if you’re able to work with me one-to-one where we can really approach this specifically and personalise for you with accountability and support from moi over six months, then absolutely reach out. If that’s not doable, then consider joining the group. It’s such a bargain for the investment at 295.

And there’s so much there that if you’re willing and if you’re committed to recovery you have everything you need there in order to fully recover. So that’s 2.95 euros and it’s also at the minute there’s a 14 day free trial so it’s a no-brainer. But you can do this my love, you don’t have to be in this forever, okay? Alright, so Sarah who’s to say I can share her name, she said,

Victoria Kleinsman (23:42.166)
I experienced a strong panic and freeze response around movement. Exercise was previously compulsive and punishment. I want to move and exercise, but all I do is panic and want to go to bed and sleep. How do I snap out of this? I’m scared. Well, my first question to you, lovely Sarah, is why do you want to move and exercise? But the short answer is you don’t need to snap out of this.

That language alone tells me that your eating disorder or the fear is trying to rush you, shame you and push you past what your nervous system can actually handle right now. So what you’re experiencing isn’t something to override, it’s your body screaming, I am not safe yet. You don’t feel safe, you said it yourself. So let me be really clear, you do not have a movement problem, you have a nervous system problem. Your body spent six years in survival mode.

starved, over-exercised, punished, then it shifted into binge purge chaos for another year and a half. Your nervous system has been in fight or flight for nearly eight years, most likely before that as well. Now it’s finally in a place where it has enough energy and resources due to your recovery to actually feel the trauma it’s been carrying. And it’s gone into freeze mode. Remember, I don’t know if you’ve listened or watched my

previous episode titled I’ve recovered from an eating disorder so why am I not happy? That will make more sense with regards to the overwhelm from being in fight, flight and fight or flight and then swinging into panic and shutdown mode because the panic you feel around movement that’s not irrational. Your body has a very, very valid association with movement equals punishment.

deprivation and harm. Your nervous system is doing its job by shutting down before you can hurt yourself again. So here’s a bit that might be really hard to hear. You don’t need to exercise right now, you need to heal instead. What’s actually happening is the continued weight gain you mentioned in your question and your longer question I didn’t read out. You restored weight six months ago, so you say,

Victoria Kleinsman (26:05.08)
Do you actually know you restored your weight? Because you got your period back, which is great, but your body has continued gaining. So you haven’t fully weight restored yet, else your body would stop gaining. This is terrifying you. And let me tell you, I get it. I really do. But here’s what’s actually happening. Your body doesn’t trust you yet. It’s spent six years being starved and over-exercised.

And then another 18 months in the binge purge chaos. Six months of quasi stability isn’t enough for your body to believe that this is permanent. Your body is still in the famine response mode, still storing energy because it doesn’t know if you’re going to restrict again. The continued weight gain isn’t out of control. It’s your body overshooting, might not even be overshooting, it’s just doing what your body needs to do. I did have an overshoot that naturally went down.

as I continue to eat unrestrictedly. So your body is just trying to protect you, is all it’s trying to do. This is completely normal in recovery and essential. Your body needs to go past its natural set point usually to feel safe enough to then settle back down to whatever that is. So think of it like a pendulum. You can’t swing from extreme restriction to equilibrium. You have to swing through the other side first, always.

Number two, sensory overwhelm and panic. The chest tightness, the stomach distress, the clothes feeling unbearable. This is somatic trauma responses. Your body is carrying all the years of punishment, all the fear, all the dysregulation in your tissues. When you try to get dressed or leave the house, your nervous system interpretates this as, we’re going back to that dangerous place where we hurt ourselves.

So staying in pyjamas and working from home isn’t avoidance actually. You’re right that it’s a nervous system safety response. Your body is saying, I can only handle this much right now. And that might not look like much at all. So number three, you mentioned the movement panic. Going back to the gym triggers panic because your body remembers, your body remembers everything from the moment you were conceived in your mother’s womb, I am not shitting you.

Victoria Kleinsman (28:28.16)
It remembers being forced to exercise when it was exhausted. It remembers movement as punishment. It remembers the compulsion. Your freeze response, wanting to go to bed and sleep, is your nervous system’s way of protecting you from re-traumatizing yourself. Sleep is your body’s ultimate safety mechanism. When freeze activates, it’s saying, shut down before we get hurt again. So what you actually need right now,

And before I go into that, I’m just gonna turn some lights on because I was getting close to the screen so you could like see me from the light of the screen. I don’t like those lights. I don’t like those colours. And now it’s got weird things shining down. well, it is what it is. I hope that’s not too distracting. Can I change that? wait, it looks like I’ve got God’s light shining down on me. Let’s go with that. So what you need right now, number one, permission from yourself to not exercise.

I know you said, I want to move and exercise, but I need you to question whether that’s you wanting it or whether that’s the fear dressed up in wellness could be. Get clear with that. True joyful movement will come back naturally. I promise you that when and only when your nervous system feels safe. But right now, forcing yourself to exercise would be re-traumatizing.

It would be teaching your body that you still don’t listen to her signals, that you still override your body’s needs and it still can’t trust you. So you need number two, nervous system regulation work, surprise, surprise. This is your real priority, not movement, not getting back in the gym, regulation. You need to teach your body that it’s safe to be in a bigger body, that it’s safe to exist without compensating through movement.

that rest isn’t lazy, it’s necessary and healing. And this means daily somatic practices, not exercises. So things like stretching, bilateral stimulation, trauma-informed yoga. You know what I absolutely love? She’s called the workout witch, and she has a four-course bundle called somatic healing. I think that’s what it’s called. I have it, I’m still doing it daily. It’s so gentle.

Victoria Kleinsman (30:50.914)
do that so it feels like you’re still doing something but it’s so gentle. So the workout which the heal your nervous system bundle, like maybe $200, something like that, it’s really so worth it. But first, join my group coaching. But no, she is really good and I recommend that. Breath work, if that feels safe for you to just to show your body it’s safe to breathe deeply. You need grounding practices when the panic does come. And you need to be working with the

parts of you, so IFS work, the parts of you that are terrified of this body and why. Number three, addressing the root cause always. Why did you develop anorexia in the first place? What were you trying to control? What didn’t feel safe in your life that made shrinking and punishing your body feel like the answer to safety? You can’t heal the movement relationship.

without healing the underlying trauma that created the eating disorder in the first place. The compulsive exercise was never about fitness or health really. It was a coping mechanism. Until you address what you were coping with, you’ll keep cycling through different expressions of the same wound. And number four, continued unrestricted eating. I know the weight gain is scary, but restricting now even subtly,

even just getting back to balanced eating will keep your body in a famine response. Your body needs consistent, unrestricted eating over an extended period. We’re talking months to years, not weeks. And in fact, ongoing, like when you recovered, you naturally eat unrestrictedly. But I mean really putting all your effort into following your mental and physical hunger and eating unrestrictedly. Before it will trust that food is always available,

and before it will just have you naturally at your set point weight that you may be holding onto an overshoot weight, you may not be. The really, the true healing comes when you stop asking that question, am I at my overshoot weight? Am I at the top of my weight set point? When you just no longer give a fuck and you just intolerance and then acceptance and then embracing, that’s when everything kind of falls into place, which is like the chicken and the egg and it’s a bit of a catch 22, but it will happen.

Victoria Kleinsman (33:13.92)
if you keep surrendering and staying in this work and allowing. The hardest part of recovery is acting as if you deserve unconditional nourishment, even when your body doesn’t look how you want it to look. So some practical steps for you right now, Sarah. Reframe movement. So stop thinking about exercise entirely. Excuse me. Ask yourself instead, what does my body actually want and need right now?

Maybe it’s some stretching in your pajamas, doing the workout, which maybe it’s dancing to a song in your living room just because it feels good. Maybe it’s a really slow walk in the woods or in nature, not for exercise, but just to get some fresh air and to connect into ground. Maybe it’s literally doing nothing and that’s the best thing and that’s actually just being and that’s perfectly okay and the best thing you can do. The goal here is to rebuild the connection between movement and pleasure.

rather than punishment and movement. This will take time. When the panic comes, when you feel a panic in your chest and in your stomach, don’t try to push through it. Don’t shame yourself for it. Instead, place your hands on your chest and your stomach. Say out loud, I feel you. You’re scared. We’re not going back there. I’m listening to you now. It’s okay. I am here for you. I will not abandon you again.

Show me what you want me to see. Take three slow deep breaths, making the exhale longer than the inhale if that feels safe for you. And ask yourself, what do I need right now to feel safe? The answer might be, go back to bed and that’s okay. Give yourself permission for that to be okay. Clothes and sensory overwhelm. This is real. Physical trauma is stored in your nervous system. Some things that might help.

Buying clothes that actually fit your current body, even if you hate doing it. But let me ask you this, if you suddenly lost loads of weight, would you be excited to spend money on new clothes? Thought so. So now you’re gaining weight, spend money on new clothes. You deserve that and your body deserves to feel comfortable. Squeezing into two small clothes is re-traumatising. Choose soft, loose fabrics that don’t trigger the sensory overwhelm.

Victoria Kleinsman (35:40.042)
If you’ve known my podcast for a while, you’ll know that when I started my recovery and when I gained a lot of weight, I just, I still don’t wear jeans at all. I just was like, you know what? I’m just not gonna wear jeans because I can’t find any that I feel like fit right, that are comfortable. So I just do not wear jeans ever. And that was like the best thing I ever did for myself, sensory, because I hate stuff like on me. So I wear like leggings that are a bit loose, that are like soft and that feel comforting on my skin.

So you can practice getting dressed in stages, underwear for 10 minutes, get used to the feeling of that, then add a layer, then add another, that might help just be really gentle with yourself, and using grounding techniques while getting dressed. So like stopping and breathing, looking at a tree outside, talking kindly to yourself, give yourself the time and attention that you deserve. And challenging the timeline here. So you said that

You restored weight six months ago, like that should be enough. Sweetheart, you had an eating disorder for nearly eight years. You have not weight restored because you’re still gaining, right? Your body is doing exactly what it needs to do. So recovery timelines are different for everyone, but typically six months to one year of recovery work will get you recovered, but everyone is so different and it can take months and years to get to a place where you want to get to.

Now, don’t let that put you off because think of the bigger picture here. Let’s say you’re 50 randomly and then let’s say you’ve got another 40 years to live. Would you rather spend one year dedicated to recovery and doing the really uncomfortable, hard stuff that gets easier and easier over that time and then have the rest of the 40 years to live in freedom? Or would you rather be like, no, a year is way too long, so I’m just going to not bother, then spend the rest of your 40 years or the rest of your life in misery?

Yeah, so do the smart thing and take one day at a time. So the truth that you need to hear is you’re not stuck. I know it feels like you might be stuck, but you’re not stuck and you’re not failing and there’s nothing wrong with you either. Your body is doing exactly what it’s supposed to do after years of trauma. The freeze response, the panic, the continued weight gain, the sensory overwhelm, all of this is your nervous system trying to heal in the only way it knows how.

Victoria Kleinsman (38:10.318)
The eating disorder wants you to, quote, snap out of it, end quote, and get back to controlling your body through movement. But your soul self, that true you, knows that true healing requires you to surrender the control, to trust the process, and let your body lead. You don’t need to exercise right now, Sarah. You need to rest. You need to regulate. You need to prove to your body that you’re not going back to punishment mode.

when your nervous system finally feels safe, and I mean truly safe, not just intellectually safe, your nervous system lives in your body, not in your head. The desire to move will come back naturally and it will feel completely different than compulsive exercise. And then there’ll be a loss. Like I’ve had to go through this. Like the gym just doesn’t do it for me anymore. I mean, long story short, I can’t go to the gym even if I wanted to right now because I’ve got serious.

over trained pelvic floor and pelvic floor issues and back and fucking hip issues since giving birth. It was happening long before that but birth accentuated it and what a gift that is. So all I can do if I want to take care of my body which is what I’m doing is get a pelvic floor specialist which is what I’m doing, have physio, walk and do gentle yoga. So when you do naturally feel like you want to come back to movement it will feel different and that will be weird as fuck to you as well.

So it will feel like joy, it will feel like pleasure. You might not want to at all and that’s okay. You’ll find your own joy and pleasure with different movement. So it won’t be punishing though. It won’t feel overwhelming or punishing or scary. But you cannot rush this. You cannot force this. You have to let your body heal at its own pace. You’re scared, I know, but fear is just information. It’s telling you that your nervous system isn’t ready yet.

So listen to it. Okay, and the same goes for you Sarah, as I spoke to the last question. If you are able to invest in yourself to have one-to-one coaching to support you through this, or the group, then absolutely do so. And this goes to anyone listening. Like I say, the group is a no-brainer. One-to-one is a significant investment, but it will be the best money you’ve ever spent. And I don’t say that lightly. All right, what time are we on? I don’t know how long I’ve been recording. I’ll just keep going. Still got more questions.

Victoria Kleinsman (40:36.418)
So Connie says, how do we surrender rather than use self care to manage your fixed problems? great question. So let’s say you’re doing the recovery work, you’re eating unrestrictedly, you’re resting, you’re following through on the actions, but you’re using self care practices to avoid actually being with yourself. You’re using self care to avoid actually being with what’s coming up.

So here’s the thing, self-care can be another form of doing when you actually, all you need to be doing is just being, just be. Surrender isn’t about managing the discomfort or fixing the symptoms. Surrender is about sitting in that fucking discomfort and letting it exist without trying to change it, without trying to soothe it away or without trying to push it away. So you eat the meal.

you rest, but instead of sitting with the anxiety, the body sensations, the terror that might come up, you immediately reach for self-care, the meditation app, the journaling, the bath, the breathing exercises, you’re staying busy with healing activities rather than actually surrendering to what is present in your body in the now. I assume this is what you’re asking. So true surrender looks like.

doing whatever it is that makes you feel uncomfortable, and then sitting down and letting the panic wash over you without trying to fix it. Feeling the sensations in your body without immediately doing something to calm them. Being with the grief, the fear, the rage, not as a problem to solve, but as an experience to witness. Letting yourself feel

utterly out of control without reaching for a tool to regain it. Self-care as avoidance can look like I’m feeling really anxious after eating or whatever it is, I need to go and do some yoga, journaling, meditation. Constantly doing something to process rather than just being with what’s happening. Using wellness practices to stay one step ahead of actually feeling your feelings.

Victoria Kleinsman (42:58.062)
because talking about your feelings are different to actually feeling the emotions that are alive within you in the now. So here’s a nuance though, self-care does have a place. Of course it does. Sometimes you genuinely need support to regulate your nervous system so you can be with yourself. Sometimes the overwhelm is too much and you need a tool to bring you back into your window of tolerance and that’s completely, perfectly okay.

But if you’re constantly using self care to avoid the raw uncomfortable experience of just sitting with yourself, with your body, with your feelings, with the uncertainty of recovery, then you’re still trying to control the experience rather than surrender to it. So the practice then is do the recovery action, eat, rest or whatever, I know Connie’s recovered so it might be something else for you. Do the fearful action, the really uncomfortable action.

or set the boundary or whatever it is, speak up for yourself. Sit with what comes up, just sit. No fixing, no soothing, no doing, just being. Let the discomfort be there without making it mean anything or without trying to change it. Then if you genuinely need support to regulate, use yourself to care tools. This…

fully allowing and surrendering to what is and experiencing it is deep spiritual work, in my opinion. Surrender is a total letting go. It’s radical acceptance of what is without trying to manage it, control it or fix it. Self-care can support that, but it can also become a subtle way of avoiding it. So the real work is learning to just be with yourself exactly as you are.

without needing to do anything about it. You have got this, everyone has got this. And notice if you’re always listening to podcasts, even mine, and always listening to audio box, give yourself some fucking space to just embody and process and be quiet. Otherwise that is another form of distraction. All right, we’ve got one from Claire and she’s saying…

Victoria Kleinsman (45:16.91)
the RFID misconception that it’s the same as anorexia in hospitals. So you’re absolutely right, avoidant restrictive food intake disorder, RFID, is not the same as anorexia, but hospitals and treatment centres often treat it in the same way, which is fucking harmful. And here’s the difference. So anorexia is an intense fear of weight gain, body image distortion, intentional and severe chronic restriction.

Aphrid or however you say it, aphid, is food avoidance due to sensory issues usually, fear of adverse consequences, for example choking or vomiting the food or simply a lack of interest in eating with no body image component or fear of weight gain usually. So someone with aphid is restricting because certain textures make them gag or they’re terrified of choking or food just doesn’t interest them at all.

is often rooted in neurodivergence, trauma, or sensory processing issues. The problem is though, hospitals use the same treatment protocol. Just eat the food at this specific time on this meal plan, gain the weight, follow the meal plan. But for people who don’t have anorexia, who actually have ARFID, the approach can be re-traumatising, also for anorexia recoverers too, well that’s a whole other story. You can’t force someone.

with severe sensory issues to eat foods that might make them physically gag or something similar and expect them to heal anything. So, R-FIT, in my opinion, needs sensory-informed approaches, gradual, gentle, safe exposure therapy, occupational therapy for sensory processing, trauma work, the trauma work of childhood, and trauma work for maybe

choking or a vomiting phobia and sometimes working with safe foods only to begin with and supplementing and then creating a safe relationship to dive into what the fear is. So someone with ARFID has a fear of food or choking or something around food and nourishment. So we need to be diving into the fear and supporting them hand in hand through that, not just forcing them to eat at certain times and that’s just gonna re-traumatise. And so…

Victoria Kleinsman (47:42.882)
For anyone with that experience and is being treated like someone with anorexia, it’s really hard because most providers don’t know the difference. They don’t even really know what to do with this. In my opinion, it’s kind of obvious, but there you go, again, a new story. You might need to educate your treatment team yourself, which is exhausting, but it’s sometimes necessary. But ARFID is a condition that requires a different approach.

that’s based in exploration, like I said, gentle exposure therapy, getting to the root of the fear, trust building and all of that. So I think I did see somewhere Claire, you said that your daughter had this. So I’m so sorry that she’s experiencing that. I’m so sorry that yeah, you’re in that position where she’s in hospital being treated like someone with anorexia. So if you can get the right support for her, yeah, that’s all I will say, but sending you big loves.

And that was the end of, was that the end of my questions? That was the end of my questions. All right, love, so if you have any questions for the podcast, like I say, you will find the form on my Instagram story highlights or at the bottom of every email, if you’re on my email list, that’s the best place to ask me any questions. I’ll do my best to answer them at the end or at the beginning of solo episodes, or if I have a lot, I will do a bunch of a juicy Q and A like this one.

Thank you for listening. And like I said, look out for in a couple of weeks, I’m doing an episode all about the crucial aspect pleasure plays in recovery and our life in general that most people don’t talk about actually. I’m really excited to record that one. So yeah, enjoy your day, evening, morning, wherever you are in the world. As always, if you haven’t rated my podcast, please rate me five stars, it really helps.

Do the whole thumbs up on YouTube and subscribe and all of that jazz. Seriously appreciate you being here and listening. Share this with someone that might need the help. And I love you all and I will see you next time. Much love.